>From owner-cran@ListService.net Mon Mar 2 01:25:01 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id BAA13451; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 01:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from vcn.bc.ca (oberon@opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id BAA13427; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 01:24:59 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: listservice.net: Host oberon@opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2] claimed to be vcn.bc.ca Received: from localhost (oberon@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA12272 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:24:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:24:59 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Skrecky To: cran@listservice.net Subject: (fwd) Your Expensive Urine--- Ahem Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris) Newsgroups: sci.life-extension,sci.med.nutrition,misc.health.alternative,sci.med,sci.med.pharmacy A trial published in the Lancet several years ago called the Cambridge Heart Antioxidant Supplement (CHAOS) trial showed that megadose vitamin E was about as effective as aspirin at preventing a heart attack in subjects at special risk for one. At that time there was very little comment on the fact that this, and earlier results on vitamin E and peripheral vascular disease, as well as one monkey experiment proving pathologically vitamin E's interference with diet induced atherogenesis, had all gone a long way toward vindicating the Shute brothers (Canadian physicians who had claimed that vitamin E was good for heart disease), and many others whom the FDA had been calling quacks for years. Wups. Very occasionally the government is wrong. Hey, it happens. But we were assured that vitamin E was a fluke. If you took those devil vitamins from the quacks, so said Dr. Victor Herbert, you could be sure at least the water soluble vitamins were just giving you expensive urine. Nothing more. But then came the annoying evidence regarding homocysteine as a risk factor for coronary disease, and also the fact that homocysteine levels are lowered by supplements of folate and B6. And there were some very odd monkey studies showing regression of atherosclerosis with B6 supplementation also. Did it happen with humans? So far, all we have is epidemiology, but it's epidemiology that all points in one direction. Just this month come two studies, one published in Feb 10, 98 _Circulation_, the other in The Feb 4 _Journal of the Canadian Medical Association._ The latter study looks at the 80,000 woman enrolled in the Nurse's Health Study, who have been followed prospectively for more than 15 years. The study found that for every 200 ug of folate consumed, a woman's heart disease risk fell by 11%, and for every 2 mg increase in B6, it fell by 17%-- in both cases controlling for all other known risks. The study estimated that the risk for women getting at least twice the RDA of both vitamins, with or without supplements, was less than half that of women getting the RDA (who are rare enough without supplements). A second, this time multinational, study (the European Concerted Action Project) reported in Circulation (97: 437-43, 1998) found that men and women not getting the RDA of B6 had almost twice the stroke and heart disease risk of those getting RDA levels (this was a case control study, with 750 people with diseases compared with 800 matched controls). Interestingly the increased risk was partly independent of homocysteine levels, suggesting an independent role for B6 in protection from stroke and heart attack (possibly an antithrombotic one, suggests this article). All of this was both good and bad news for the FDA, which for 15 years had fought the idea of supplementing diets with folate for purposes of prevention of birth defects, right up until the time it decided to mandate the addition of folate to flour products, which began on Jan. 1 of this year. Zo now you haff no choize. You vill eat ziss folate supplement, UNT you vill like it. But people who sell B6 pills are still vitamin huckster quacks. Or will be, until B6 also becomes a flour fortification vitamin in the future. And maybe even after. Vitamins in pills, bad. Quack, quack. Vitamins removed in processing, and then re-added to foods by food industry, good. Got it? Never mind your expensive urine. That only confuses things. Steve Harris, M.D. >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 5 09:59:40 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id JAA00392; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:59:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id JAA00152; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:59:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13295; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:58:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA09558; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:57:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:57:18 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Appetite versus Hunger -- Manipulating the Drive to Eat Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk My greatest difficulty in practicing CRAN is not with hunger, but with appetite. I can do a fairly good job of avoiding eating despite hunger pangs, but I find I have a great deal of difficulty ceasing to eat once I have started. One way of dealing with this has been by weighing and rationing the amount of food I eat. Another way might be to eat very infrequently. I have not done this, however, because of my desire to take nutritional supplements with food and my desire to take those supplements 3 times daily (8am, 4pm, midnight). One thing I have noticed about appetite -- or, at least, my appetite under the normal circumstance of usually being somewhat hungry or having a desire to eat -- is that almost anything I eat piques my appetite for more of what I have just eaten. Knowing this, I try to force myself to eat things like cabbage & cucumber when I am giving-in to the desire to eat. Although I often would prefer to be eating something other than these very low-calorie foods, once I begin eating them, my appetite re-focuses toward eating more of the same. I think this has been an effective technique in reducing my overall calorie intake. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 5 10:15:36 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id KAA06830; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 10:15:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id KAA05449; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 10:11:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14718; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 12:06:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA10151; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 12:05:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 12:05:44 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Fat -- simple conclusions from complex epidemiological studies Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk An important part of my practice of CRAN has been keeping my total fat intake to less than 10% of my total calories. I have just been studying two articles on the issue of dietary fat in the NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE which, together, go a long way toward explaining the issues of the complex subject of dietary fat. One is the massive (80,082 women, 14-year) Nurses' Health Study review of dietary fat [NEJM 337(21):1491-1499 (1997)]. The other is a clinical debate on the benefits of a diet relatively low in fat and high in carbohydrate [NEJM 337(8):562-567 (1997)]. I found the effort to account for confounding factors in the Nurses' Health Study to be particularly interesting. Four categories of fats were studied: (1) saturated fat (2) mono-saturated fat (3) poly-unsaturated fat and (4) trans unsaturated fat. Levels of intake for all four types were divided into 3 categories of: (1) lowest (2) intermediate (3) highest. For all categories of fat, fat intake was inversely related to vigorous exercise. This is probably due to the psychological phenomenon of people who exercise eating more fruits, vegetables, grains & legumes as part of a healthy lifestyle. Fat intake was also inversely related to Vitamin E supplementation for all categories of fat except poly-unsaturated fat (for which there was no correlation between fat intake and supplementation). Again, this probably indicates the healthy lifestyle psychology of taking Vitamin E along with eating less fatty foods -- and substituting polyunsaturated fats for saturated fats. Fat intake also varied inversely with alcohol intake for all categories of fat. This is *not* an indicator of a healthy lifestyle. More likely, it indicates a homeostatic reduction in calories from fat to compensate for increased calories from alcohol. This may explain the "French Paradox" of low incidence of coronary heart disease in France if high alcohol consumption mean fewer fats are being ingested. However, I don't drink alcohol and I think there are better alternatives to fat-calories than alcohol-calories. (The Honolulu Heart Study found a direct correlation between incidence of stroke and all levels of alcohol consumption -- in contrast to other studies which showed benefit to "moderate" alcohol consumption. There are probably many confounding factors in these epidemiological studies which have yet to be defined. Often, I find that the category of "non-drinker" includes former alcoholics -- which creates a bias for the advantages of "moderate drinking".) Fat intake varied directly with smoking for all categories of fat except poly-unsaturated fat. This makes some sense from the "healthy lifestyle" point of view, since smokers would be less health conscious and less likely to be concerned about eating fatty foods -- or substituting poly-unsaturated fats for saturated fats. But since smokers are notoriously lean, it surprises me that they consume more fat. Adjusting for smoking proved to be crucial for the Nurses' Health Study. Without adjustment, total fat intake would be significantly associated with increased incidence of coronary heart disease. But adjusting for smoking, there is virtually no association between total fat intake and CHD. CHD relative risk for each increase of 5% relative calories for each kind of fat is 1.17, 0.81 and 0.62 for saturated, mono-unsaturated and poly-unsaturated fat, respectively. This would seem to indicate that the less the saturation of the fat, the better for preventing coronary heart disease. But in the discussion section of the Nurses' Health Study paper it is noted that total mortality varies inversely with mono-unsaturated fat consumption. In the clinical debate paper the association between poly-unsaturated fats & cancer from animal studies is noted, and a recommendation is made to substitute mono-unsaturated for poly-unsaturated fats. Human epidemiological studies (as I interpret the paper's description) indicate the greatest risk for colon cancer may be from red meat, rather than from total fat. The risk factor for prostate cancer is associated with animal fat rather than total fat. I suspect that there may be many confounding factors involved in these observations which have yet to be elucidated. (No mention is ever made of the higher pesticide/industrial toxin content of animal fats.) Although the Nurses' Health Study would indicate no benefit for coronary heart disease by substituting carbohydrates for fat, the clinical debate shed a lot more light on this question. It was noted that dietary fat intake has dropped since 1976 while obesity has increased by one-third. This doesn't surprise me too much insofar as most of the "low fat" foods I see in stores are loaded with sugar. For me, a low-fat diet means a diet in which most calories come from protein or the complex carbohydrates of vegetables (not even the complex carbohydrates of "starchy foods" -- I avoid pasta and ration bread). The strongest anti-carbohydrate argument I see in the debate is that low fat/high carbohydrate diets lower HDL cholesterol along with lowering LDL cholesterol -- whether the carbohydrate is sugar or starch (complex carbohydrate). Such a diet also reduces the intake of dietary Vitamin E. Vitamin E (including gamma-tocopherol) can be gotten from supplements without the need to eat fat. The debate paper also mentions the fact that epidemiological studies of Chinese has shown that for people who are lean and active, HDL cholesterol is not lowered. I have ample reason to believe that my < 10% fat intake and my practice of CRAN have dramatically improved my HDL/LDL ratio. Although my level of exercise has not changed in 10 years (I do vigorous exercise about 3 times weekly -- and exercise increases HDL cholesterol), from my 1993 physical exam to my 1997 exam my weight dropped from 150 to 112 pounds while my LDL cholesterol dropped from 2.41 to 1.31 mmol/Litre and my HDL cholesterol rose from 1.20 to 1.52 mmol/L. My overall conclusion is that a very low fat intake in the context of a low-calorie diet, exercise and good supplements is a very effective strategy for reducing the risk of death due to heart disease, cancer and "aging". -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 5 16:07:34 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id QAA25773; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 16:07:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id QAA25728; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 16:07:28 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803052307.QAA25728@listservice.net> Received: (qmail 19548 invoked from network); 5 Mar 1998 23:07:29 -0000 Received: from userb705.uk.uudial.com (HELO yz34.dial.pipex.com) (193.149.83.180) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 1998 23:07:29 -0000 From: "Phil Harris" To: "Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver" Subject: Re: Fat -- simple conclusions from complex epidemiological studies Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 22:52:48 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk SNIP > My overall conclusion is that a very low fat intake in the context of > a low-calorie diet, exercise and good supplements is a very effective > strategy for reducing the risk of death due to heart disease, cancer and > "aging". > > -------------------------------------------- > Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) > http://www.benbest.com/ A very useful posting. Perhaps your plant product intake will also have protective effects in its own right. All I can add further is that the conclusions that you cull from these studies appear very similar to those appearing from the Cornell China Project, even though most of the Chinese population(s) have diet and physiology profiles displaced to the 'healthy' end of our spectrum. (We and they need to worry about different diseases). Even in the different Chinese context, however, surprisingly small intakes of animal products still apparently make an unfavourable difference to cancer incidence, even in a leaner population with otherwise useful physiological characteristics, such as the lower cholesterol levels, which in the West you do not usually see unless you are doing CR. Of course the Chinese are not doing CRAN or even plain CR. Despite low BMI they average 2800 calories a day. I was surprised by this figure. Although, apparently, Westerners have cut back calories intake on average to around 2400 because of less physical work, there is more obesity in our populations than there used to be. best wishes Phil Harris >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 5 16:57:35 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id QAA14502; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 16:57:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id QAA14491; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 16:57:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from infoscreen.com (timothy.vip.best.com [206.86.94.206]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id PAA03792; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 15:53:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tim@localhost) by infoscreen.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA00335; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 16:51:45 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 16:51:45 -0800 From: Tim Freeman Message-Id: <199803060051.QAA00335@infoscreen.com> To: Phil.Harris@dial.pipex.com CC: CRAN@ListService.net, tim@infoscreen.com In-reply-to: <199803052307.QAA25728@listservice.net> (Phil.Harris@dial.pipex.com) Subject: Re: Fat -- simple conclusions from complex epidemiological studies Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk >Even in the different Chinese context, however, surprisingly small intakes >of animal products still apparently make an unfavourable difference to >cancer incidence, even in a leaner population with otherwise useful >physiological characteristics, such as the lower cholesterol levels, which >in the West you do not usually see unless you are doing CR. How small? Every meal I eat has a small piece of fish, about 100 grams. -- Tim Freeman tim@infoscreen.com http://www.infoscreen.com/resume.html Web-centered Java, Perl, and C++ programming in Silicon Valley or offsite >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 5 21:29:15 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id VAA20428; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 21:29:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id VAA20423; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 21:29:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA01524; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 23:29:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA22522; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 23:28:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 23:28:17 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: Fat -- simple conclusions from complex epidemiological studies In-Reply-To: <199803060051.QAA00335@infoscreen.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Tim Freeman wrote: > >Even in the different Chinese context, however, surprisingly small intakes > >of animal products still apparently make an unfavourable difference to > >cancer incidence, even in a leaner population with otherwise useful > >physiological characteristics, such as the lower cholesterol levels, which > >in the West you do not usually see unless you are doing CR. > > How small? Every meal I eat has a small piece of fish, about 100 grams. Fish products are not included in "animal products". Fish oils are actually often protective against cardiovascular disease because they are high in omega-3 fatty acids, which lower blood triglycerides. But the main benefit of omega-3 fatty acids is as a precursor of prostaglandin, which inhibits platelet aggregation and dilates blood vessels. Linseed (flaxseed) oil, however, is a richer source of omega-3 fatty acid (55% linoleic acid) than fish. There is a downside to omega-3 fatty acids, however. The inhibition of clotting may be dangerous in leading to excessive bleeding. Omega-3 oils in large doses depress the immune system and have been associated with scarring of heart muscle in animal studies. The amount of essential fatty acid (mainly linoleic acid) which is required in the diet is very small. I periodically take a linseed oil capsule or other essential fatty acid supplement, and don't much worry about the matter besides that. My main focus is to reduce fat intake as much as possible -- to reduce calories. Animal fats, besides being saturated, are probably higher in pesticides and environmental organotoxins (like dioxin). The food chain in the ocean probably does not contain so many pesticides. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Fri Mar 6 03:31:22 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id DAA10549; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 03:31:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id DAA10540; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 03:31:17 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803061031.DAA10540@listservice.net> Received: (qmail 17330 invoked from network); 6 Mar 1998 10:31:13 -0000 Received: from usera212.uk.uudial.com (HELO yz34.dial.pipex.com) (193.149.65.212) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 1998 10:31:13 -0000 From: "Phil Harris" To: "Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver" Subject: RE- Re: Fat -- simple conclusions from complex epidemiological Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:19:07 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk (APOLOGIES to TIM. I did it again and sent to him first by mistake.) ---------- > From: Tim Freeman > Subject: Re: Fat -- simple conclusions from complex epidemiological studies > Date: 06 March 1998 00:51 > >>Even in the different Chinese context, however, surprisingly small >>intakes >>of animal products still apparently make an unfavourable difference to >> cancer incidence, even in a leaner population with otherwise useful >> physiological characteristics, such as the lower cholesterol levels, >>which >>in the West you do not usually see unless you are doing CR. > > How small? Every meal I eat has a small piece of fish, about 100 grams. > -- > Tim Freeman My piece was taken from what I have read of T C Campbell's work. I can only quote snippets from the web site for Campbell and the China Project. >http:www.mcspotlight.org/media/reports/campbell_china2.html< There is a 1991 paper as well. However when one unpacks the reports a little we see changes in development eg onset of menarch, and changes to mortality from virally caused liver cancer and other such specifics, which influence the headline figures. I am not at all sure what your little bit of fish does within your CRAN context. As I mentioned, though the Chinese have a diet closer to your CR one and a BMI close to yours, they are certainly not doing CR. BTW I do not think Campbell is claiming 'plasma cholesterol' is 'causal', more a matter of being a useful biomarker. Snippets follow. Hope they are not overlong. Phil Harris SNIPPET 1.. "In the final analysis, we have strong evidence from this and other studies that nutrition becomes the controlling factor in the development of chronic degenerative diseases," Campbell concludes. "Even small intakes of animal foods, which simultaneously alter the intake of countless nutrients and other constituents, is capable of significantly elevating plasma cholesterol and similar biomarkers, and thereby elevate the risk of degenerative diseases. "Mere tinkering with our diets by consumption of a few low-fat foods or special nutrient supplements, although possibly useful under some circumstances, will likely only have minimally useful effects and almost certainly will not be a panacea for disease prevention." Rather, he stresses, Americans need to shift to a more plant-based diet. The typical American diet contains 10 times more animal protein (as percent of calories) than does the typical Chinese diet. The average dietary fat intake in China is 15 percent of calories compared with 38 to 40 percent in the United States. The average consumption of dietary fiber is 33 grams a day in China compared with 10 to 12 grams in the United States. AND..............SNIPPET 2 Although the biology of the diet and disease relationship is infinitely complex and is easily misunderstood when interpreted in a reductionism manner, the main nutritional conclusion from this study is the finding that the greater the consumption of a variety of good quality plant-based foods, the lower the risk of those diseases which are commonly found in western countries (eg., cancers, cardiovascular diseases, diabetes). Based on these and other data, we hypothesize that 80-90% of all such diseases could be prevented before about age 90 years. The optimum lifetime blood cholesterol concentration may be as low as 100-125 mg/dL (compared to an average concentration of about 210 mg/dL in the US.). The same dietary factors which increase blood cholesterol concentrations among Americans (at the much higher ranges) also increase cholesterol at the lower concentrations of the Chinese; these include, for example, increased intakes of dietary fat and animal protein and decreased intakes of dietary fiber and legumes. Moreover, the lower the blood cholesterol, the lower the risk for various cancers; there is no evidence of a cholesterol threshold below which further decreases in disease would not occur. These two facts are quite remarkable, in that they suggest that almost any consumption of animal-based foods (higher in fat, lower in fiber) may increase blood cholesterol (among many other biochemical changes) from a very low level, this to be followed by a significant increase in the prevalence of the degenerative diseases (many other analyses of these same data for individual diet-disease relationships support this interpretation). Chinese consume more total calories (per unit of body weight), yet have far less obesity than AMericans, probably accounted for both by greater physical activity and greater consumption of a low fat, plant-based diet. chronic infection with hepatitis B virus is a major cause of primary liver cancer. Together with the highly significant nutritional findings, this cancer appears to be a viral/nutritional disease, not a viral/chemical carcinogen disease as previously thought (our data on this question are more comprehensive than all others combined, thus our conclusion on the role of nutrition, even though different, is highly relevant). Control of the prevalence of this disease may be best achieved through immunization of young children. Prevention of disease progression among individuals who suffer chronic hepatitis infection may be best achieved through strict adherence to a low fat, plant based diet. >From owner-cran@ListService.net Fri Mar 6 08:58:31 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id IAA09830; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 08:58:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id IAA09296; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 08:56:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA20307; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:54:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA13760; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:53:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:53:17 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Carbohydrate binges Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk My main problem with binging has been with carbohydrates. For someone else this might mean cookies, but for me it has meant the complex carbohydrates in cooked grain foods, processed cereals and breads. I have noticed that there is a whole syndrome to the binging process. It usually occurs in the evening, often late at night when I am already very tired. Perhaps my will power is weaker at that time, after a long day, and usually I will have eaten very little during the day. It may actually begin with a desire for fruit. I think I am slightly hypoglycemic after a full day of few calories and on my way home I will give in to the temptation to get some kiwi or a banana -- the desire for some fruit-sugar. Bananas are high in tryptophan, so this may reduce my alertness even more, preparing me for the binge. Then I would eat some carbohydrate, either cereal (grape-nuts, shredded wheat 'N bran or even oatmeal) or bread slices (often with cheese). Both the glucose from carbohydrate and branch-chained amino acids (especially leucine) increase insulin secretion. Insulin facilitates the transport of branch-chained amino acids into muscle cells, thereby reducing the competition tryptophan faces for the large neutral amino acid transporter that takes it across the blood-brain barrier. Once in the brain, virtually all tryptophan is converted to serotonin. Serotonin concentration in the brain is far more sensitive to the effects of diet than any other monoamine transmitter -- and can be increased up to 10-fold by dietary supplementation in dietary animals. The serotonin will make me painfully drowsy, and yet the elevated insulin will aggrevate my appetite for more carbohydrate. In this condition, I become like a drunk, whose will to resist drinking more alcohol has been eroded by alcohol. Therefore, I continue to binge -- feeling sleepier and sleepier and yet more and more intent upon gratifying my appetite. In order to deal with this situation, I have resorted to rationing. The only cereal I permit myself is a mix of wheat bran, oat bran and FIBRE ONE with unflavored, sugar-free Metamucil (only the FIBRE ONE has been cooked/processed). I generally eat this during the day, to prevent hemorrhoids -- despite the fact that it makes me sleepy and sometimes interferes with my ability to do work. I am now resorting to rationing of bread -- no more than 4 slices per day. I may have to be more careful about fruit as well -- especially (again) bananas. I rarely see anyone but myself discuss problems with binging. I don't know whether this is because others don't restrict calories as severely as I do, or because others are more ashamed, or because others are less expressive, or what. But I find it hard to believe that I am the only one with a problem in this area, and I hope that others will find it helpful to benefit from some of my struggles, lessons and strategies to prevent binging. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Sat Mar 7 06:38:39 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id GAA16998; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 06:38:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id GAA16964; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 06:38:33 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803071338.GAA16964@listservice.net> Received: (qmail 28639 invoked from network); 7 Mar 1998 13:38:31 -0000 Received: from usera027.uk.uudial.com (HELO yz34.dial.pipex.com) (193.149.65.27) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 1998 13:38:31 -0000 From: "Phil Harris" To: "Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver" Subject: cancer addendum - Fat - simple conclusions from complex epidemiological Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 13:26:11 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk For Ben's CRan list ( I will cross-post part of this message to crsoc) Brian Chiko wrote on the CRsoc list subject Diet and cancer >Folks, >Just found this web site, thought you might be interested. >I'm planning to order a copy: >http://www.aicr.org/report1.htm This site advertises a report, whose main advice is eat a mainly plant-based diet with low fat, low salt, no or low red meat, alcohol ditto. The advisory team includes TC Campbell of the Cornell China Project and Prof Philip James (Aberdeen, Scotland) who is adviser on food to the new UK government. It may be of interest that a sharp battle has just been fought in the UK with victory for those who have a different scientific interpretation of the data and, presumably, victory also for the meat interests. The above report was given an official endorsement here last September from our Health Dept and Minister. The latter had to intervene to get the recommendation on eating less, if any, red meat, re-inserted in the UK official presentation after officials had taken it out. He has since had to back-track and a few days ago the recommendation was put back up to the old pre-report level. One of the arguments used here was that the data was not UK data and therefore could not apply here. Beware political agendas, gentle food folks. We talk global policies. Phil Harris NB I am slightly frustrated that Ben's great synopsis of the fat epidemiological data is not available on the other CR list. >From owner-cran@ListService.net Sat Mar 7 19:48:05 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id TAA19626; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 19:48:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id TAA19593; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 19:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from infoscreen.com (timothy.vip.best.com [206.86.94.206]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id SAA11521; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 18:46:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tim@localhost) by infoscreen.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA00204; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 19:44:41 -0800 Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 19:44:41 -0800 From: Tim Freeman Message-Id: <199803080344.TAA00204@infoscreen.com> To: benbest@benbest.com CC: CRAN@ListService.net, tim@infoscreen.com In-reply-to: (message from Ben Best on Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:53:17 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: Carbohydrate binges Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk >But I find it hard to believe that I am the only one >with a problem in this area, and I hope that others will find it helpful >to benefit from some of my struggles, lessons and strategies to prevent >binging. I have a similar problem. It also happens in the evening for me, and it also happens when I have eaten too little that day. It is usually accompanied by a headache. Early during the headache, eating will make it go away. If I let it persist for longer, eating makes it better but doesn't quickly make it go away. I have measured my blood sugar when this is happening and I don't think it's hypoglycemia. For the time being I choose to believe that the headache is symptomatic of something and making it go away is worthwhile. I plan to stockpile some canned vegetables or legumes, and try eating them instead in these circumstances. The goal is to eat something that supplies enough calories to make the headache go away, but not something that escalates the binge. -- Tim Freeman tim@infoscreen.com http://www.infoscreen.com/resume.html Web-centered Java, Perl, and C++ programming in Silicon Valley or offsite >From owner-cran@ListService.net Sun Mar 8 13:29:55 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id NAA19670; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:29:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id NAA19662; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:29:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16775; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:29:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA20932; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:28:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:28:47 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: Carbohydrate binges In-Reply-To: <006601bd49ac$8468b8a0$c3038f80@ariel> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, Michael Carmack wrote: > My personal experience: rationing can make quite a difference. I bought a > nice digital kitchen scale (for weighing food, that is--accurate to within 2 > grams) and the walford diet planner software almost as soon as I began CR. > For about 4 months I weighed absolutely everything I ate, and figured out > the next day's food the night before with the software. I found it was > possible to handle 1600 calories/day without too much trouble, simply > because I wouldn't be thinking "hey, I can probably eat this and it wouldn't > be too bad". Instead, I knew every bit of food that I would be eating that > day, and it was just a matter of deciding when to eat it. (FWIW, I found > that eating less in the morning and more at night was more agreeable.) > > I've gradually become less dependent on the scale and software as I gotten a > routine down, but I always have a *fixed* amount of food to eat each day. > Right now I'm getting in the neighborhood of 2000 cal/day in order to > maintain my weight (I was loosing weight way to quickly for a while there, > at least by my personal assessment), but that which is above 1600 cal/day is > largely "filler"--stuff that is calorie dense that I'll easily be able to > throw out when I'm ready to lose weight again. But rationing is essential > for me to accomplish this. Most of what you say I could apply to myself. On my website is my record of consumption for a month in which I consumed less than 1,400 calories per day. Once I went for a week on 500 calories per day. I have been trying to "wean" myself from my digital scale, but I still use it to make breakfast (weigh my broccoli & strawberries to be around 60 calorie). Recording every calorie for every food eaten and calculating the totals and staying within limits is an extremely valuable experience which I think no CRAN practitioner should miss. It heightens awareness, improves discipline and educates that practitioner concerning the calorie content of foods most recently eaten. But it can also get to be a hassle, and if I can maintain 120 pounds without weighing, I will do so. I think an occasional binge is not the end of the world, but I still dislike the erosion of will-power and the sense of being "out of control" -- driven by impulse rather than by reason. I try to follow a binge with a fast. For example, I went to visit my parents and some > old friends about 3 weeks ago, and was there for about 2 weeks. During that > time I didn't I make any effort to ration my food, nor was I around a > reliable scale so that I could keep track of my weight. As a result, I came > back 3 lbs heavier! I was a little disappointed--felt like I was going > backwards! Anyway, it taught me a lesson: don't go visit relatives again :) I have had the same problem almost every time I have traveled for more than a few days. > Ok, what it really taught me was that it's important to ration food. And for > me, that means really planning out what I'm going to eat *the day before*. Hard to do when you are traveling, unless you take your food with you. > Incidently, IMO you make it tough on yourself keeping cheese, bread, and > cereal around the house, especially if you're not rationing. I have been rationing cereal for a long time. My cereal mixes are in pre-allocated portions in plastic cups covered with a plastic bag (from buying veggies) wrapped with a rubber band. You evidently weren't paying attention to my posting, because the whole purpose of it was to describe a *problem* leading to binging -- and a *solution*, namely, rationing. > I've come up with some fantastically low calorie salad dressings (like 25 > calories per 1/4 cup) made out of pureed silken tofu and/or vegetable gums > (guar and xanthan); if you're interested, I can try to write down the > recipes (mostly now I just wing it). They really liven up veggies; I could > honestly eat nothing but salads all day and never feel deprived! OK, let's hear the recipies. What is "silken tofu". I have heard the term, but don't understand what it means. Actually, I'm not usually very interested in recipies. Practicing CRAN means that my appetite is usually pretty sharp, and I don't need to be making efforts to make things taste better. Almost anything I eat already tastes good -- too good, perhaps. Also, eating raw vegetables straight from my cutting-board is less hassle than having to mess with recipies. However, I've had some guar gum sitting in my fridge for ages, and I'm willing to experiment with it until it is used-up. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Sun Mar 8 19:18:39 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id TAA05893; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:18:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from www.cedarnet.org (www.cedarnet.org [206.29.224.1]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id TAA05881; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:18:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from compaq (ppp149034.usmo.com [206.27.149.34]) by www.cedarnet.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA27559 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:18:41 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803090218.UAA27559@www.cedarnet.org> From: "Doug Younkin" To: CRAN@ListService.net Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:18:01 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Carbohydrate binges In-reply-to: Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk > Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:53:17 -0500 (EST) Ben, This is one reason I do not adopt a low fat diet, especially during CRAN, because with fat content of meals at around 20-25%, the glycemic index of my meal is much lower and so the glucose and insulin response I experience are very gradual and I do not have rebound effects or cravings. By intentionally limiting consumption during the day, you probably do drastically lower your glucose levels. As soon as you eat carbohydrates, you blast your glucose up like a step function, and the response of your insulin soon follows likewise. Then as the insulin depletes your blood of glucose, you may experience a crash and actually need a quick fix of carbs to rescue your body from a hypoglycemic attack. This see-saw effect can be quite powerful on cravings and moods. My suggestion is to try raising your fat intake (seeds, nuts, nut butters, olives, canola oil spreads are the ones I use) to 20-25% and see what happens to your cravings. I still need to monitor my calorie intake because it is easy to consume more than my allotment much more quickly, but the satiation is much more evident with the higher fat intake too. Doug Younkin ================================ > From: Ben Best > To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver > Cc: Ben Best > Subject: Carbohydrate binges snip > Perhaps my will power is weaker at that time, after a long day, and > usually I will have eaten very little during the day. > > It may actually begin with a desire for fruit. I think I am slightly > hypoglycemic after a full day of few calories snip > Both > the glucose from carbohydrate and branch-chained amino acids (especially > leucine) increase insulin secretion. snip > The serotonin will make me painfully drowsy, and yet the elevated > insulin will aggrevate my appetite for more carbohydrate. In this > condition, I become like a drunk, whose will to resist drinking more > alcohol has been eroded by alcohol. Therefore, I continue to binge -- > feeling sleepier and sleepier and yet more and more intent upon gratifying > my appetite. > > In order to deal with this situation, I have resorted to rationing. > The only cereal I permit myself is a mix of wheat bran, oat bran and > FIBRE ONE with unflavored, sugar-free Metamucil (only the FIBRE ONE > has been cooked/processed). I generally eat this during the day, to > prevent hemorrhoids -- despite the fact that it makes me sleepy and > sometimes interferes with my ability to do work. > > I am now resorting to rationing of bread -- no more than 4 slices > per day. I may have to be more careful about fruit as well -- especially > (again) bananas. snip > -------------------------------------------- > Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) > http://www.benbest.com/ > >From owner-cran@ListService.net Mon Mar 9 04:23:35 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id EAA09737; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 04:23:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id EAA09729; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 04:23:32 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803091123.EAA09729@listservice.net> Received: (qmail 20768 invoked from network); 9 Mar 1998 11:23:11 -0000 Received: from userj757.uk.uudial.com (HELO yz34.dial.pipex.com) (194.69.110.96) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 1998 11:23:11 -0000 From: "Phil Harris" To: "Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver" Subject: re carbo binges Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:22:02 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk I agree with Doug Younkin that high glycemic index food does not help appetite control over the day. Or from day to day for that matter: There seems some distinct carry over of appetite from the day before. I would not, however, go as far as introducing higher fat content. I have found that smaller meals 5 or 6 times per day that include usually some lower GI food or are high fibre / pectin raw veg / fruit blends, make a big difference. They seem to alter the psychology as well. When I eat my now smaller breakfast I immediately experience sharply increased appetite. This lasts from 10 to 20 minutes after the breakfast. It is useful to remind myself during this short period that I will have more in a little while. This instantaneous onset does not square with the GI theory too well nor with the small intestine satiety response which is supposed to be satisfied by some foods more than others. Or so I read. Maybe I am not on such strict CR but the above was the only way I could still lose weight once I got well below my set point. Incidentally, from the appetite point of view it was much easier when I was doing only raw food for a while. Phil Harris >From owner-cran@ListService.net Mon Mar 9 10:23:50 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id KAA26213; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:23:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from milestone.koan.de (root@milestone.koan.de [195.4.16.2]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id KAA26169; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:23:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from rdf2z (ppp17.koan.de [195.4.16.37]) by milestone.koan.de (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id SAA13402 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:19:40 -0100 Message-ID: <35042540.4867@koan.de> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 18:22:08 +0100 From: Richard & Dawn Fedorowicz Reply-To: rdf2z@koan.de Organization: All Fired Up X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CRAN@ListService.net Subject: Re: Carbohydrate binges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk > I rarely see anyone but myself discuss problems with binging. I don't > know whether this is because others don't restrict calories as severely > as I do, or because others are more ashamed, or because others are less > expressive, or what. But I find it hard to believe that I am the only one > with a problem in this area, and I hope that others will find it helpful > to benefit from some of my struggles, lessons and strategies to prevent > binging. > Thanks for your openess and honesty, Ben. I would never have posted anything about my own struggles with alcohol for fear of being scoffed at - by a group of people who seem to have knowledge and willpower way beyond my own! Regards, Dawn >From owner-cran@ListService.net Mon Mar 9 11:06:09 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id LAA13806; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:06:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from milestone.koan.de (root@milestone.koan.de [195.4.16.2]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id LAA13463; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:05:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from rdf2z (ppp11.koan.de [195.4.16.31]) by milestone.koan.de (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id TAA13818 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:01:44 -0100 Message-ID: <35042E50.659@koan.de> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 19:00:48 +0100 From: Richard & Dawn Fedorowicz Reply-To: rdf2z@koan.de Organization: All Fired Up X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CRAN@ListService.net Subject: Re: Appetite versus Hunger -- Manipulating the Drive to Eat...or Drink! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Ben's posting was really interesting: I found eating small meals very frequently helps me, eating a little even when not especially hungry seems to prevent me wanting to 'go overboard'. I have a different problem: when socialising I find it difficult to restrain my drinking. My husband drinks at home in the evenings and weekends, is very slim and sees no reason to alter his behaviour to help me along. It's not possible to avoid socialising: our lifestyle demands that we frequently attend functions. I've tried giving up drink altogether and enjoying mineral water (which was refreshing and helped keep my head clear!) but when all around you....and so on. So often we get together with friends and colleagues for formal functions which I feel anxious about - I'm shy and rather nervous, but it's not conducive to good manners when meeting people, so I resort to Dutch Courage! Any ideas on coping with this? Someone out there must have experienced something similar...? Dawn >From owner-cran@ListService.net Mon Mar 9 15:32:27 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id PAA29236; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:32:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from milestone.koan.de (root@milestone.koan.de [195.4.16.2]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id PAA29200; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:32:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from rdf2z (ppp11.koan.de [195.4.16.31]) by milestone.koan.de (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id XAA17350 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:28:25 -0100 Message-ID: <3504357E.2C00@koan.de> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 19:31:26 +0100 From: Richard & Dawn Fedorowicz Reply-To: rdf2z@koan.de Organization: All Fired Up X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CRAN@ListService.net Subject: RE- Re: Fat -- simple conclusions from complex epidemiological References: <199803061031.DAA10540@listservice.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Phil, I found your last post particularly interesting. I can't help noticing how all the Chinese women in this regions are very, very slender. I've never seen a fat Chinesewoman anyway! One of the girls at our local restaurant says she eats two huge meals a day, they are big family get-togethers and last for ages, and she never counts calories (laughed at me eating a low fat diet!) but doesn't eat much meat. Most of her family live to between their late eighties and mid to late nineties. They are very healthy and put it down to their traditional fare. Dawn >From owner-cran@ListService.net Mon Mar 9 15:43:44 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id PAA04360; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:43:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id PAA04354; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:43:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23483; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:43:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA23896; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:42:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:42:31 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Mori-Nu Tofu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Mori-Nu Lite & Mori-Nu Extra-Firm claim to be the lowest-fat tofu in the world. Their product is packaged in asceptic packaging which is hermetically sealed so that it need not be refrigerated before opening. It can be ordered directly from the company and is shipped by UPS, when ordered by the case. Their website is at: www.morinu.com/welcome.html Their e-mail address is: mori-nu@pacbell.net Their phone number is: 1-800-669-8639 (1-800-NOW-TOFU) Unfortunately, this number is not reachable from Canada and the company does not ship to Canada except through their Canadian distributer in Vancouver -- Sunrise Market at (604) 254-8888. The Tofu actually has quite a bland taste -- moreso than most tofu's, but this may be because of the low fat. I prefer the Extra Firm and am trying to arrange an order through Sunrise Market. Tofu is a popular substitute for milk, but I am more interested in the phytochemicals, which have a good reputation for anti-cancerous properties. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Tue Mar 10 15:28:35 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id PAA09884; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:28:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id PAA09779; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:28:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15813; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:27:27 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA29447; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:27:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:27:26 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: RE- Re: Fat -- simple conclusions from complex epidemiological In-Reply-To: <199803061031.DAA10540@listservice.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, Phil Harris wrote: > SNIPPET 1.. [snip] > The typical American diet contains 10 times more animal protein (as percent > of calories) than does the typical Chinese diet. The average dietary fat > intake in China is 15 percent of calories compared with 38 to 40 percent in > the United States. The average consumption of dietary fiber is 33 grams a > day in China compared with 10 to 12 grams in the United States. Phil, thanks for posting this. I had no idea the numbers were so extreme. > AND..............SNIPPET 2 > > Although the biology of the diet and disease relationship is infinitely > complex and is easily misunderstood when interpreted in a reductionism > manner, the main nutritional conclusion from this study is the finding that > the greater the consumption of a variety of good quality plant-based foods, > the lower the risk of those diseases which are commonly found in western > countries (eg., cancers, cardiovascular diseases, diabetes). Based on these > and other data, we hypothesize that 80-90% of all such diseases could be > prevented before about age 90 years. Note that this all refers to AVERAGE (MEAN) lifespan rather than MAXIMUM lifespan. I don't think these numbers are unreasonable. I think many of those practicing CRAN do so with their main focus on MAXIMUM lifespan rather than MEAN lifespan, but I am more convinced that the benefits of the latter rather than the former will follow from CRAN. This is fine with me. With the prospects of current technology, any years we can buy of any type will give us a better chance of surviving to the AGE OF BIOMEDICAL DNA REPAIR. Unfortunately, I was a meat-eater for most of my life, up until only a few years ago. I also was an over-eater. > of dietary fiber and legumes. Moreover, the lower the blood cholesterol, > the lower the risk for various cancers; there is no evidence of a > cholesterol threshold below which further decreases in disease would not > occur. It is also true that the leanest people are the healthiest (when correcting for smoking and underlying disease). However, at some point calorie restriction will begin to damage health. Similarly, at some point cholesterol could become so low that synthesis of essential hormones would become a problem and the cholesterol needed for cellular membranes would be absent. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Tue Mar 10 15:41:49 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id PAA16248; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:41:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id PAA16138; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:41:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18351; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:41:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA00482; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:41:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:41:06 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: Appetite versus Hunger -- Manipulating the Drive to Eat...or Drink! (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk This submission was sent to me only. From the wording, it seems clear that is was intended for the CRAN listserver. They said they intended to forward it to the list, but I never saw it arrive. So I am forwarding it myself. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, Richard & Dawn Fedorowicz wrote: > Ben's posting was really interesting: I found eating small meals very > frequently helps me, eating a little even when not especially hungry > seems to prevent me wanting to 'go overboard'. > > I have a different problem: when socialising I find it difficult to > restrain my drinking. My husband drinks at home in the evenings and > weekends, is very slim and sees no reason to alter his behaviour to help > me along. It's not possible to avoid socialising: our lifestyle demands > that we frequently attend functions. I've tried giving up drink > altogether and enjoying mineral water (which was refreshing and helped > keep my head clear!) but when all around you....and so on. So often we > get together with friends and colleagues for formal functions which I > feel anxious about - I'm shy and rather nervous, but it's not conducive > to good manners when meeting people, so I resort to Dutch Courage! > > Any ideas on coping with this? Someone out there must have experienced > something similar...? > > Dawn >From owner-cran@ListService.net Tue Mar 10 16:02:11 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id QAA25794; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:02:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id QAA25733; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:02:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22749; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:02:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA01485; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:02:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:01:59 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: Carbohydrate binges In-Reply-To: <199803090218.UAA27559@www.cedarnet.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Doug Younkin wrote: > This is one reason I do not adopt a low fat diet, especially during > CRAN, because with fat content of meals at around 20-25%, the > glycemic index of my meal is much lower and so the glucose and > insulin response I experience are very gradual and I do not have > rebound effects or cravings. Doug, You impress me as being one of the most successful CRAN practitioners. Your practice seems rigorous, painless, disciplined, effective, and with a minimum of "side effects" or failings. I would like to hear a more detailed description of what you would eat on a typical day -- and when you would eat it. > By intentionally limiting consumption > during the day, you probably do drastically lower your glucose > levels. As soon as you eat carbohydrates, you blast your glucose up > like a step function, and the response of your insulin soon follows > likewise. Then as the insulin depletes your blood of glucose, you > may experience a crash and actually need a quick fix of carbs to > rescue your body from a hypoglycemic attack. This see-saw effect can > be quite powerful on cravings and moods. Are you suggesting a carbohydrate-free diet. From mid-January until mid-February I tried to avoid all baked goods. But this meant I was eating almost nothing but vegetables, tofu, whey protein-drink, skim milk cheese, very high fibre cereal, lentils and some fruit. My bladder was full all the time, it seemed. I estimated my urine to be at least 5 or 6 litres per day, including my water-drinking. I think this was hard on my kidneys, and I suspected that I was losing electrolytes. Carbohydrates conserve electrolytes, I understand (although I still want to learn more about this). In an earlier posting I discussed some studies that showed the insulin response to sugar, cooked starch and uncooked starch. The response to uncooked starch is much better. As a step in that direction I now intend to stop toasting the bread I use for my sandwiches. I got hemorrhoids when I tried to drop cereal. > My suggestion is to try > raising your fat intake (seeds, nuts, nut butters, olives, canola oil > spreads are the ones I use) to 20-25% and see what happens to your > cravings. I still need to monitor my calorie intake because it is > easy to consume more than my allotment much more quickly, but the > satiation is much more evident with the higher fat intake too. I have had a binging problem when I got some peanut butter to used as mouse-trap bait. The calories in nuts and nut-butters seem astronomical to me. However, I would like to hear the recipies for your spreads. Your suggestion of olives has raised my interest, however, since it has monosaturated fat -- not carcinogenic fat like poly-unsaturated fat or cardiovacular-disease aggrevating fat like saturated fats. I have not been able to find fresh olives, however. Most is packed in jars or cans with lots of salt. I will keep looking. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Wed Mar 11 01:08:49 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id BAA24345; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 01:08:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id BAA24330; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 01:08:47 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803110808.BAA24330@listservice.net> Received: (qmail 29597 invoked from network); 11 Mar 1998 08:08:52 -0000 Received: from userj842.uk.uudial.com (HELO yz34.dial.pipex.com) (194.69.110.181) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 1998 08:08:52 -0000 From: "Phil Harris" To: "Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver" Subject: low cholesterol Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:07:36 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk BEN BEST WROTE SNIP >. Similarly, at some point cholesterol could become so low that synthesis of essential hormones would become a problem and the cholesterol needed for cellular membranes would be absent.From owner-cran@ListService.net Wed Mar 11 12:23:05 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id MAA27223; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:23:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id MAA24202; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:15:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10338; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:15:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA13092; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:15:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:15:02 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: re carbo binges In-Reply-To: <199803091123.EAA09729@listservice.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Phil Harris wrote: > I have found that smaller meals 5 or 6 times per day that include usually > some lower GI food or are high fibre / pectin raw veg / fruit blends, make > a big difference. They seem to alter the psychology as well. > When I eat my now smaller breakfast I immediately experience sharply > increased appetite. This lasts from 10 to 20 minutes after the breakfast. > It is useful to remind myself during this short period that I will have > more in a little while. My appetite gets stimulated every time I eat -- even if I am not especially hungry when I eat. My biggest difficulty is STOPPING eating, rather than resist starting. Therefore, I would do better to eat one meal daily. The only reason I eat 3 times daily (8am, 4pm and midnight) is because I take supplements, and supplements are best absorbed with food. The paper entitled "The Relationship of Body Weight to Longevity within Laboratory Rodent Species" by Donald Ingram & Mark Reynolds (published in 1987 in EVOLUTION OF LONGEVITY IN ANIMALS, Edited by A.D.Woodhead & K.H.Thompson) found that Every-Other-Day (EOD) ad libitum feeding, compared to 50% Diet Restricted (RES) feeding gave greater lifespan increase for normal mice (56% increase EOD versus 36% increase RES). It is known that for rats, single large daily meals are more likely to result in fat storage than multiple small daily meals, but fewer total calories are ingested with the single feeding regimen [FEDERAL PROCEEDINGS 29:1294-1301 (1970)]. It may be that with EOD feeding there is less total calorie intake than with RES. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Wed Mar 11 14:16:38 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id OAA13270; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:16:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id MAA01610; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:34:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14234; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:29:59 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA13983; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:29:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:29:58 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: Appetite versus Hunger -- Manipulating the Drive to Eat...or Drink! (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, Richard & Dawn Fedorowicz wrote: > I have a different problem: when socialising I find it difficult to > restrain my drinking. My husband drinks at home in the evenings and > weekends, is very slim and sees no reason to alter his behaviour to help > me along. It's not possible to avoid socialising: our lifestyle demands > that we frequently attend functions. I've tried giving up drink > altogether and enjoying mineral water (which was refreshing and helped > keep my head clear!) but when all around you....and so on. So often we > get together with friends and colleagues for formal functions which I > feel anxious about - I'm shy and rather nervous, but it's not conducive > to good manners when meeting people, so I resort to Dutch Courage! I don't drink alcohol, but my attempt to practice CRAN rigorously has given me more understanding of what it feels like to be an alcoholic. I think that anyone who pushes their calorie-restriction hard enough will eventually find themselves obsessed with food, compulsive about eating and vulnerable to binging. But maybe I'm just rationalizing. The issues you raise are quite different, however. I have not felt pressure to drink alcohol at social functions, or if there is such pressure, I have no trouble resisting it. It may help that I am a non-drinker, so I don't have to wonder about *how much* to drink. I can easily see that the more alcohol you drink, the less will power you would have not to drink more. I think non-drinking is the best policy to avoid this "slipper slope". Non-eating is not an option, however. Rationing is the second-best option, only provided that you have the will to commit to a certain level of consumption beforehand and to refuse to break that commitment later. I don't recognize the phrase "Dutch Courage". Does that mean using alcohol to reduce nervousness? I also have problems restraining my eating when socializing. Part of this is because so many people like to use food for socializing. Part of it is because so many people want to feed you as a way of "giving" or of being a good host/hostess. But part of it is my own problem of self-control when I am in a food-centered environment where lots of people are eating and lots of tempting foods are there for the taking. Avoiding these situations can be dangerous to your social life. However, I have had some great friendships that were not so food-centered -- people with whom socializing might mean a walk in the park or shared constructive activities. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Wed Mar 11 16:15:44 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id QAA01593; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:15:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.mailsrvcs.net (smtp1.gte.net [207.115.153.30]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id QAA01562; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:15:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust16.tnt1.ontario.ca.da.uu.net [208.254.108.16]) by smtp1.mailsrvcs.net with ESMTP id RAA13504 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:15:29 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3507186B.DC7767A4@gte.net> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:04:11 -0800 From: Paul Wakfer Reply-To: wakfer@gte.net Organization: Full Length Life Society X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cran@listservice.net Subject: [Fwd: RE- Re: Fat -- simple conclusions from complex epidemiological] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2D47D3A9928E6E2DC1F492B1" Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2D47D3A9928E6E2DC1F492B1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following was sent by mistake to Ben only. --------------2D47D3A9928E6E2DC1F492B1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <3505CEC3.FF8868D6@gte.net> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:37:39 -0800 From: Paul Wakfer Reply-To: wakfer@gte.net Organization: Full Length Life Society X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ben Best Subject: Re: RE- Re: Fat -- simple conclusions from complex epidemiological References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ben Best wrote: > Similarly, at some point > cholesterol could become so low that synthesis of essential hormones > would become a problem and the cholesterol needed for cellular membranes > would be absent. I believe that for those without some evidence of need, the huge push to make ones cholesterol as low as possible is a mistake. The following abstract shows that in the very old, those with higher cholesterol have increased longevity. If this trend is so strong in those above 85, then I suspect it is also there less strongly at even younger ages. Lancet 1997 Oct 18;350(9085):1119-1123 Total cholesterol and risk of mortality in the oldest old. Weverling-Rijnsburger AW, Blauw GJ, Lagaay AM, Knook DL, Meinders AE, Westendorp RG Department of General Internal Medicine, Leiden University Medical Center, Netherlands. BACKGROUND: The impact of total serum cholesterol as a risk factor for cardiovascular disease decreases with age, which casts doubt on the necessity for cholesterol-lowering therapy in the elderly. We assessed the influence of total cholesterol concentrations on specific and all-cause mortality in people aged 85 years and over. METHODS: In 724 participants (median age 89 years), total cholesterol concentrations were measured and mortality risks calculated over 10 years of follow-up. Three categories of total cholesterol concentrations were defined: < 5.0 mmol/L, 5.0-6.4 mmol/L, and > or = 6.5 mmol/L. In a subgroup of 137 participants, total cholesterol was measured again after 5 years of follow-up. Mortality risks for the three categories of total cholesterol concentrations were estimated with a Cox proportional-hazards model, adjusted for age, sex, and cardiovascular risk factors. The primary causes of death were coded according to the International Classification of Diseases (ICD-9). FINDINGS: During 10 years of follow-up from Dec 1, 1986, to Oct 1, 1996, a total of 642 participants died. Each 1 mmol/L increase in total cholesterol corresponded to a 15% decrease in mortality (risk ratio 0.85 [95% CI 0.79-0.91]). This risk estimate was similar in the subgroup of participants who had stable cholesterol concentrations over a 5-year period. The main cause of death was cardiovascular disease with a similar mortality risk in the three total cholesterol categories. Mortality from cancer and infection was significantly lower among the participants in the highest total cholesterol category than in the other categories, which largely explained the lower all-cause mortality in this category. INTERPRETATION: In people older than 85 years, high total cholesterol concentrations are associated with longevity owing to lower mortality from cancer and infection. The effects of cholesterol-lowering therapy have yet to be assessed. -- Paul -- wakfer@gte.net Voice/Fax: 909-481-9620 Page: 800-805-2870 The Prometheus Project -- http://prometheus.morelife.org Perfected Suspended Animation for Patient Stabilization until Cures for Their Terminal Diseases are Available --------------2D47D3A9928E6E2DC1F492B1-- >From owner-cran@ListService.net Wed Mar 11 18:47:07 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id SAA04442; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:47:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from arl-img-9.compuserve.com (arl-img-9.compuserve.com [149.174.217.139]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id SAA04430; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:47:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by arl-img-9.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.10) id UAA29677; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:46:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:46:09 -0500 From: "Michael R. Edelstein" Subject: Re: Appetite versus Hunger -- Manipulating the Drive to Eat...or Drink! To: "INTERNET:rdf2z@koan.de" Cc: CRAN List Message-ID: <199803112046_MC2-366F-E9F6@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Dawn Fedorowicz wrote: > I have a different problem: when socialising I find it difficult to > restrain my drinking. My husband drinks at home in the evenings and > weekends, is very slim and sees no reason to alter his behaviour to hel= p > me along. It's not possible to avoid socialising: our lifestyle demand= s > that we frequently attend functions. I've tried giving up drink I've devoted a chapter in my book (see below) detailing techniques helpfu= l = in overcoming this problem. I'd be happy to send you a copy of the chapte= r, just give me your mailing address. Michael Michael R. Edelstein, Ph.D. = Clinical Psychologist San Francisco 415-673-2848 (24 hours) Author of THREE MINUTE THERAPY: = CHANGE YOUR THINKING, CHANGE YOUR LIFE* (with David Ramsay Steele, Ph.D.) FEATURES HELP FOR ANXIETY, DEPRESSION, RELATIONSHIPS, PANIC ATTACKS AND ADDICTION *A Quality Paperback Book Club/Book-of-the-Month Club Selection TO ORDER: www.amazon.com Or toll free: 1-800-986-4135 DrEdelstein@ThreeMinuteTherapy.com www.ThreeMinuteTherapy.com >From owner-cran@ListService.net Wed Mar 11 18:50:10 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id SAA05572; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:50:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from hil-img-10.compuserve.com (hil-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.177.140]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id SAA05521; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-10.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.10) id UAA26513; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:49:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:46:04 -0500 From: "Michael R. Edelstein" Subject: Re: Carbohydrate binges To: Tim Freeman Cc: CRAN List Message-ID: <199803112046_MC2-366F-E9F1@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Tim Freeman wrote: > I plan to stockpile some canned vegetables or legumes, and try > eating them instead in these circumstances. The goal is to eat > something that supplies enough calories to make the headache go away, > but not something that escalates the binge. Ready-to-eat raw baby carrots, available in virtually all supermarkets = where I live, serves this purpose well for me. Michael Michael R. Edelstein, Ph.D. = Clinical Psychologist San Francisco 415-673-2848 (24 hours) Author of THREE MINUTE THERAPY: = CHANGE YOUR THINKING, CHANGE YOUR LIFE* (with David Ramsay Steele, Ph.D.) FEATURES HELP FOR ANXIETY, DEPRESSION, RELATIONSHIPS, PANIC ATTACKS AND ADDICTION *A Quality Paperback Book Club/Book-of-the-Month Club Selection TO ORDER: www.amazon.com Or toll free: 1-800-986-4135 DrEdelstein@ThreeMinuteTherapy.com www.ThreeMinuteTherapy.com >From owner-cran@ListService.net Wed Mar 11 18:50:12 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id SAA05589; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:50:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from hil-img-10.compuserve.com (hil-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.177.140]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id SAA05522; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-10.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.10) id UAA26533; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:49:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:46:06 -0500 From: "Michael R. Edelstein" Subject: Carbohydrate binges To: Ben Best Cc: CRAN List Message-ID: <199803112046_MC2-366F-E9F5@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Ben Best wrote: > My main problem with binging has been with carbohydrates. For someon= e > else this might mean cookies, but for me it has meant the complex > carbohydrates in cooked grain foods, processed cereals and breads. I ha= ve > noticed that there is a whole syndrome to the binging process. It usual= ly > occurs in the evening, often late at night when I am already very tired= =2E > Perhaps my will power is weaker at that time, after a long day, and > usually I will have eaten very little during the day. = I have an identical problem. I deal with this by not allowing myself to e= at after 8PM on weekdays, and not allowing myself bread (except Lotus Bakery= = rye, which I'm never tempted to binge on) on weekends. Michael Michael R. Edelstein, Ph.D. = Clinical Psychologist San Francisco 415-673-2848 (24 hours) Author of THREE MINUTE THERAPY: = CHANGE YOUR THINKING, CHANGE YOUR LIFE* (with David Ramsay Steele, Ph.D.) FEATURES HELP FOR ANXIETY, DEPRESSION, RELATIONSHIPS, PANIC ATTACKS AND ADDICTION *A Quality Paperback Book Club/Book-of-the-Month Club Selection TO ORDER: www.amazon.com Or toll free: 1-800-986-4135 DrEdelstein@ThreeMinuteTherapy.com www.ThreeMinuteTherapy.com >From owner-cran@ListService.net Wed Mar 11 19:02:14 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id TAA10047; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:02:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from galaxy.ucr.edu (root@galaxy.ucr.edu [138.23.226.100]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id TAA10024; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:02:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from boyce5452.ucr.edu (boyce5452.ucr.edu [138.23.156.133]) by galaxy.ucr.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA06246 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:02:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980311180147.007a2480@galaxy.ucr.edu> X-Sender: browley@galaxy.ucr.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:01:47 -0800 To: cran@ListService.net From: Brian Rowley Subject: [Fwd: RE- Re: Fat -- simple conclusions from complex epidemiological] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Paul Wakfer wrote: >I believe that for those without some evidence of need, the huge push to make >ones cholesterol as low as possible is a mistake. The following abstract shows >that in the very old, those with higher cholesterol have increased longevity. I've heard the same thing! Dr. Morley Sutter of UBC (Prof. Pharmacology) told me there is a correlation between heart disease and blood cholesterol before age 65, but an INVERSE correlation after age 65. That suggests that linking blood cholesterol levels to heart disease etiology in any obvious or simple-minded way is wrong. >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 12 02:13:43 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id CAA23460; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 02:13:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id CAA23454; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 02:13:39 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803120913.CAA23454@listservice.net> Received: (qmail 9896 invoked from network); 12 Mar 1998 09:13:44 -0000 Received: from userj836.uk.uudial.com (HELO yz34.dial.pipex.com) (194.69.110.175) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 1998 09:13:44 -0000 From: "Phil Harris" To: "Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver" Subject: Re: [Fwd: RE- Re: Fat -- simple conclusions from complex epidemiological] Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:12:45 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk ---------- > From: Paul Wakfer > To: cran@listservice.net > Subject: [Fwd: RE- Re: Fat -- simple conclusions from complex epidemiological] MY comment: Higher total cholesterol means living longer in old age? Bad news here for CR on the face of it apparently. The total cholesterol figures quoted for the very elderly in the Lancet study (see P's forward attachment to his message above), tranlated into US units, are roughly 180 mg/dL upwards. This is a very different range from typical CR folk, often around 130, and different again from those figures that tie in with the least incidence of chronic degeneracy diseases, particularly cancer, in China, quoted by TC Campbell: vis. 100 -125 mg/dL lifetime concentration. BTW, however, in Western populations total cholesterol rises with age. (I dont know about other pops.). Cancer rate also rises, accelarating drastically in very old age. Also a recent major study, ref. not to hand but heavily cited in med literature, of Glasgow men, showed that blanket intervention with an effective cholesterol lowering drug lowered mortality of middle-aged men because of lowering of deaths due to cardio-vascular. best wishes Phil Harris >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 12 03:01:43 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id DAA00576; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 03:01:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from ip78.129.isdn.hogia.net (ip78.129.isdn.hogia.net [195.78.129.78]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id DAA00568; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 03:01:41 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803121001.DAA00568@listservice.net> Received: from 195.78.129.75 by ip78.129.isdn.hogia.net with SMTP (QuickMail Pro Server for MacOS 1.1d1); 12 MAR 98 10:59:20 UT X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:06:53 +0100 Subject: Re: Appetite versus Hunger From: "Felix Ungman" To: CRAN@ListService.net Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Ben Best: > I don't drink alcohol, but my attempt to practice CRAN rigorously has >given me more understanding of what it feels like to be an alcoholic. I >think that anyone who pushes their calorie-restriction hard enough will >eventually find themselves obsessed with food, compulsive about eating >and vulnerable to binging. But maybe I'm just rationalizing. well, if you don't get obsessed with food on CR, you probably should see a doctor. I find binging very annoying, but try to tackle the problem slighty different. I don't know what "will power" is, and I'm not sure that I have such a thing. Instead I realize that I have several complex feedback loops, that I have very little control over. I can choose what to eat, but can't modify how the amino acids that I eat stimulate me. Feeling guilty of binging might work once or twice, but in the long rung guilt is more destructive than constructive. I believe CR should be hazzle free. It's hard, but I'm sure it's possible. FELIX'98 - CITIUS . ALTIUS . FORTIUS >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 12 08:33:36 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id IAA22918; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:33:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk (root@rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk [139.184.48.12]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id IAA22888; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:33:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from iane.ppp.cogs.susx.ac.uk ([139.184.53.39]) [139.184.53.39] by rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yD9yM-0004xP-00; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:32:42 +0000 Subject: Re: Carbohydrate binges Date: Thu, 12 Mar 98 15:39:12 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Ian Eiloart To: "Michael R. Edelstein" , "Ben Best" cc: "CRAN List" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Message-Id: Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk >after 8PM on weekdays, and not allowing myself bread (except Lotus Bakery >rye, which I'm never tempted to binge on) on weekends. > What a cool solution, only eat food that you hate! ;^) -- cheers, Ian http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/iane http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/iane/coops >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 12 08:33:42 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id IAA22957; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:33:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk (root@rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk [139.184.48.12]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id IAA22871; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:33:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from iane.ppp.cogs.susx.ac.uk ([139.184.53.39]) [139.184.53.39] by rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yD9yJ-0004xP-00; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:32:39 +0000 Subject: Re: Appetite versus Hunger -- Manipulating the Drive to Eat...or Drink! (fwd) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 98 15:39:10 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Ian Eiloart To: "Ben Best" , "Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Message-Id: Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) said: > >On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, Richard & Dawn Fedorowicz wrote: > >> I have a different problem: when socialising I find it difficult to >> restrain my drinking. My husband drinks at home in the evenings and >> weekends, is very slim and sees no reason to alter his behaviour to help >> me along. It's not possible to avoid socialising: our lifestyle demands >> that we frequently attend functions. I've tried giving up drink >> altogether and enjoying mineral water (which was refreshing and helped >> keep my head clear!) but when all around you....and so on. So often we >> get together with friends and colleagues for formal functions which I >> feel anxious about - I'm shy and rather nervous, but it's not conducive >> to good manners when meeting people, so I resort to Dutch Courage! > > I don't drink alcohol, > The issues you raise are quite different, however. I have not felt >pressure to drink alcohol at social functions, or if there is such >pressure, I have no trouble resisting it. It may help that I am a >non-drinker, Absolutely, if you have never drunk alcohol, you should have no problem, among responsible adults. If you are an ex-drinker, it probably got easier with time after you quit drinking. > > I don't recognize the phrase "Dutch Courage". Does that mean using >alcohol to reduce nervousness? Yes. -- cheers, Ian http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/iane http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/iane/coops >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 12 08:33:52 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id IAA23040; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:33:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk (rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk [139.184.48.12]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id IAA23024; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:33:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from iane.ppp.cogs.susx.ac.uk ([139.184.53.39]) [139.184.53.39] by rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yD9yF-0004xP-00; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:32:36 +0000 Subject: Re: Appetite versus Hunger -- Manipulating the Drive to Eat...or Drink! Date: Thu, 12 Mar 98 15:39:07 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Ian Eiloart To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Message-Id: Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Dawn Fedorowicz (rdf2z@koan.de) said: >Ben's posting was really interesting: I found eating small meals very >frequently helps me, eating a little even when not especially hungry >seems to prevent me wanting to 'go overboard'. > >I have a different problem: when socialising I find it difficult to >restrain my drinking. My husband drinks at home in the evenings and >weekends, is very slim and sees no reason to alter his behaviour to help >me along. It's not possible to avoid socialising: our lifestyle demands >that we frequently attend functions. I've tried giving up drink >altogether and enjoying mineral water (which was refreshing and helped >keep my head clear!) but when all around you....and so on. So often we >get together with friends and colleagues for formal functions which I >feel anxious about - I'm shy and rather nervous, but it's not conducive >to good manners when meeting people, so I resort to Dutch Courage! > >Any ideas on coping with this? Someone out there must have experienced >something similar...? > >Dawn > I drink, too. I think that the evidence that alcohol is beneficial to health is difficult to ignore. I believe that red wine is particularly beneficial. I think that there are three considerations to help you drink sensibly: 1. The calories in alcoholic drink come from sugars and alcohol, and a little protein in beers and wines. Avoid drinks with high sugars, eg Port and liqueurs such as sdvocat cherry brandy and curacao. Spirits (brandy, gin, rum, whisky) have virtually no sugars. Sweet white wine contains 10 times more sugar than sweet white wine. g/100ml sugar alcohol kj/100ml Red 0.3 9.5 284 av. of Beaujolais, burgundy, claret Rose 2.5 8.7 294 5 different samples dry white 0.6 9.1 275 5 diff samp med wh 3.4 8.8 311 Graves sparkling 1.4 9.9 315 Champagne sweet wh 5.9 10.2 394 Sauternes For red and dry whites,the kJ from sugars are small. A half bottle (375ml) is about 1200kJ, about 300kc. Don't forget that your appetite will be stimulated, and that salty foods will increase your thirst in a viscious cycle. 2. For maximum Dutch Courage, drink alcohol at about 15-20% by volume. Eg a strong wine, a fortified wine (sherry has much less sugar than port) or a 1:1 mix of spirits and water or a diet mixer. I'd recommend a good Scotch and water, or gin and diet tonic. 3. Alternate with long soft drinks. 4. Alcohol inebriation can occur as a placebo effect if you believe that there is alcohol in an alcohol free drink. This might be a little difficult to achieve deliberately, but you could ask your husband to help! -- cheers, Ian http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/iane http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/iane/coops >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 12 13:31:51 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id NAA27508; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:31:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from vcn.bc.ca (oberon@opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id NAA27442; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:31:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (oberon@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA12018 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:31:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:31:29 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Skrecky To: cran@listservice.net Subject: body fat loss with conjugated linoleic acid Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Authors Park Y. Albright KJ. Liu W. Storkson JM. Cook ME. Pariza MW. Institution Department of Food Microbiology and Toxicology, University of Wisconsin-Madison 53706, USA. Title Effect of conjugated linoleic acid on body composition in mice. Source Lipids. 32(8):853-8, 1997 Aug. Abstract The effects of conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) on body composition were investigated. ICR mice were fed a control diet containing 5.5% corn oil or a CLA-supplemented diet (5.0% corn oil plus 0.5% CLA). Mice fed CLA-supplemented diet exhibited 57% and 60% lower body fat and 5% and 14% increased lean body mass relative to controls (P < 0.05). Total carnitine palmitoyltransferase activity was increased by dietary CLA supplementation in both fat pad and skeletal muscle; the differences were significant for fat pad of fed mice and skeletal muscle of fasted mice. In cultured 3T3-L1 adipocytes CLA treatment (1 x 10(-4)M) significantly reduced heparin-releasable lipoprotein lipase activity (-66%) and the intracellular concentrations of triacylglyceride (-8%) and glycerol (-15%), but significantly increased free glycerol in the culture medium (+22%) compared to control (P < 0.05). The effects of CLA on body composition appear to be due in part to reduced fat deposition and increased lipolysis in adipocytes, possibly coupled with enhanced fatty acid oxidation in both muscle cells and adipocytes. Authors Belury MA. Nickel KP. Bird CE. Wu Y. Institution Department of Foods and Nutrition, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907, USA. Title Dietary conjugated linoleic acid modulation of phorbol ester skin tumor promotion. Source Nutrition & Cancer. 26(2):149-57, 1996. Abstract The fatty acid derivative conjugated dienoic linoleate (CLA) has been shown to inhibit initiation and postinitiation stages of carcinogenesis in several experimental animal models. The goal of the present study was to determine the role of increasing levels of dietary CLA in mouse skin tumor promotion elicited by 12-O-tetradecanoylphorbol-13-acetate (TPA). Mice were fed control (no CLA) diet during initiation, then switched to diets containing 0.0%, 0.5%, 1.0%, or 1.5% (wt/wt) CLA during skin tumor promotion by TPA. Body weights of mice fed 0.5%, 1.0%, or 1.5% CLA were similar to each other but were significantly lower (p < 0.05) than weights of mice fed no CLA (0.0%) throughout promotion. A reduction in papilloma incidence was observed in mice fed 1.5% CLA from Weeks 8 to 24 compared with mice fed diets containing 0.0-1.0% CLA (p < 0.05). Twenty-four weeks after tumor promotion was begun, diets containing 1.0% and 1.5% CLA inhibited tumor yield (4.94 and 4.35 tumors/mouse, respectively) compared with diets without CLA (0.0% CLA, 6.65 tumors/mouse, p < 0.05) or 0.5% CLA (5.92 tumors/mouse, p < 0.05). These data indicate that CLA inhibits tumor promotion in a manner that is independent of its anti-initiator activity. Further studies are warranted in identifying cellular mechanisms that are likely to be involved with the antipromoter effects of CLA. >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 12 13:33:14 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id NAA28236; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:33:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from vcn.bc.ca (oberon@opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id NAA28116; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:32:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (oberon@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA12705 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:32:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:32:59 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Skrecky To: cran@listservice.net Subject: potassium bicarbonate reduces urinary nitrogen excretion Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Authors Frassetto L. Morris RC Jr. Sebastian A. Institution Department of Medicine, University of California, San Francisco 94143, USA. Title Potassium bicarbonate reduces urinary nitrogen excretion in postmenopausal women. Source Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism. 82(1):254-9, 1997 Jan. Abstract Previously we demonstrated that low grade chronic metabolic acidosis exists normally in humans eating ordinary diets that yield normal net rates of endogenous acid production (EAP), and that the degree of acidosis increases with age. We hypothesize that such diet-dependent and age-amplifying low grade metabolic acidosis contributes to the decline in skeletal muscle mass that occurs normally with aging. This hypothesis is based on the reported finding that chronic metabolic acidosis induces muscle protein breakdown, and that correction of acidosis reverses the effect. Accordingly, in 14 healthy postmenopausal women residing in a General Clinical Research Center and eating a constant diet yielding a normal EAP rate, we tested whether correcting their "physiological" acidosis with orally administered potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3; 60-120 mmol/day for 18 days) reduces their urinary nitrogen loss. KHCO3 reduced EAP to nearly zero, significantly reduced the blood hydrogen ion concentration (P < 0.001), and increased the plasma bicarbonate concentration (P < 0.001), indicating that pre-KHCO3, diet-dependent EAP was significantly perturbing systemic acid-base equilibrium, causing a low grade metabolic acidosis. Urinary ammonia nitrogen, urea nitrogen, and total nitrogen levels significantly decreased. The cumulative reduction in nitrogen excretion was 14.1 +/- 12.3 g (P < 0.001). Renal creatinine clearance and urine volume remained unchanged. We conclude that in postmenopausal women, neutralization of diet-induced EAP with KHCO3 corrects their preexisting diet-dependent low grade metabolic acidosis and significantly reduces their urinary nitrogen wasting. The magnitude of the KHCO3-induced nitrogen-sparing effect is potentially sufficient to both prevent continuing age-related loss of muscle mass and restore previously accrued deficits. >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 12 18:09:39 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id SAA26059; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 18:09:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id QAA05094; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 16:06:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01439; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 18:06:24 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA10765; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 18:06:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 18:06:22 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com Reply-To: Ben Best To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: Appetite versus Hunger -- Manipulating the Drive to Eat...or Drink! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Ian Eiloart wrote: > I drink, too. I think that the evidence that alcohol is beneficial to > health is difficult to ignore. I think this is all very doubtful. Of alcohol itself, it has been associated with elevated HDL cholesterol, but I suspect that this may be due to reduced fat intake (see below). In any case, there are much better ways to elevate HDL cholesterol than alcohol, including exercise, niacin supplements and CRAN. I don't drink and my HDL/LDL ratio is *stellar* (excellent). Alcohol is 7 calories per gram and devoid of nutrition. Even fat, at 9 calories per gram, has some redeeming features -- essential fatty acids, associated Vitamin E, assisted absorption of fat-soluble vitamins, etc. I can't see any nutritional benefits to alcohol aside from the HDL cholesterol claim. My March 5th posting, "Fat -- simple conclusions from complex epidemiological studies", in which I reviewed the NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE Nurses' Health Study summary of dietary fat [NEJM 337(21):1491-1499 (1997)] contained the following: ************************** QUOTED FROM MARCH 5TH POSTING ************* Fat intake also varied inversely with alcohol intake for all categories of fat. This is *not* an indicator of a healthy lifestyle. More likely, it indicates a homeostatic reduction in calories from fat to compensate for increased calories from alcohol. This may explain the "French Paradox" of low incidence of coronary heart disease in France if high alcohol consumption mean fewer fats are being ingested. However, I don't drink alcohol and I think there are better alternatives to fat-calories than alcohol-calories. (The Honolulu Heart Study found a direct correlation between incidence of stroke and all levels of alcohol consumption -- in contrast to other studies which showed benefit to "moderate" alcohol consumption. There are probably many confounding factors in these epidemiological studies which have yet to be defined. Often, I find that the category of "non-drinker" includes former alcoholics -- which creates a bias for the advantages of "moderate drinking".) ************************ END OF EXCERPT FROM MARCH 5TH POSTING *********** > I believe that red wine is particularly > beneficial. Phil Harris' posting of 28-October-1997 described a review of the "Cancer Chemopreventative Activity of Resveratrol" which appeared in SCIENCE 275:218-228 (1997). This particular phytochemical from grape skins is probably the most popular phytochemical in the world, and I doubt that this is because it is so superior to all the others. I get lots of phytochemicals in my fruits, vegetables and supplements (including grapeseed extract -- proanthrocyanadin). If resveratrol becomes available in supplements, I may include it, but I won't be drinking red wine to get it -- I don't think the costs are worth the benefits. > 2. For maximum Dutch Courage, drink alcohol at about 15-20% by volume. Eg > a strong wine, a fortified wine (sherry has much less sugar than port) or > a 1:1 mix of spirits and water or a diet mixer. I'd recommend a good > Scotch and water, or gin and diet tonic. I don't want to sound moralistic! My moralistic tone, if I have one, comes from my irritation with people "bending the facts" to rationalize the so-called "health benefits" of alcohol. My problems with carbohydrate binges and self-control have given me more empathy with alcoholics than I have ever had. Will power can be tough! One more problem with alcohol, however, is that it erodes will power. By drinking it, you are only increasing the problem of self-control. I hope this doesn't sound moralistic, but I have had many experiences of social anxiety -- some very extreme. It has always been my desire to allow myself to experience those feeling fully rather than numb them with alcohol. Only in that way do I have a possibility about learning about those feelings and how I can conquer them. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 12 23:50:36 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id XAA04238; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 23:50:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id XAA04232; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 23:50:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA12740; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 01:50:35 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA07959; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 01:50:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 01:50:34 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: [Fwd: RE- Re: Fat -- simple conclusions from complex epidemiological] In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980311180147.007a2480@galaxy.ucr.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Brian Rowley wrote: > Paul Wakfer wrote: > >I believe that for those without some evidence of need, the huge push to make > >ones cholesterol as low as possible is a mistake. The following abstract > shows > >that in the very old, those with higher cholesterol have increased longevity. > > I've heard the same thing! Dr. Morley Sutter of UBC (Prof. Pharmacology) > told me there is a correlation between heart disease and blood cholesterol > before age 65, but an INVERSE correlation after age 65. That suggests that > linking blood cholesterol levels to heart disease etiology in any obvious > or simple-minded way is wrong. Hundreds of studies have linked blood cholesterol with coronary heart disease (CHD) [SCIENCE 264:532-537 (1994)], but the relationship is not a simple one. Ratios of HDL to LDL or to total blood cholesterol have been shown to be better predictors [CIRCULATION 67(4):730-734 (1983)]. Low-fat/High carbohydrate diets typically lower both HDL and LDL cholesterol -- if the carbohydrate is sugar, HDL may be lowered to a greater extent (greater risk of CHD), whereas if the carbohydrate is starch, LDL may be lowered to a greater extent [NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE 325(24):1740-1742 (1991)]. In some epidemilogical studies a low level of HDL is a consistent predictor of CHD, but Latin America and East Asia have low levels of CHD, LDL and HDL. [IBID] These studies have not concerned themselves with a specifically elderly population, as did the study Paul cited. However many of the elderly are sedentary and malnourished. Low blood cholesterol in the elderly may mean low HDL cholesterol due to lack of exercise. Also, especially in the elderly, low blood fat or cholesterol is often a proxy for poor diet. Deficiencies of calcium and potassium are greater contributers to high blood pressure than is excessive fat intake -- the greater the consumption of dairy products, the less the likelihood of high blood pressure [SCIENCE 224:1392-1398 (1984)]. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Fri Mar 13 00:15:36 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id AAA09104; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 00:15:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id AAA09100; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 00:15:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA15575; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 02:15:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA08729; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 02:15:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 02:15:38 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Low Fat Diet In-Reply-To: <199803090218.UAA27559@www.cedarnet.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Doug Younkin wrote: > This is one reason I do not adopt a low fat diet, especially during > CRAN, because with fat content of meals at around 20-25%, the > glycemic index of my meal is much lower and so the glucose and > insulin response I experience are very gradual and I do not have > rebound effects or cravings. By intentionally limiting consumption > during the day, you probably do drastically lower your glucose > levels. As soon as you eat carbohydrates, you blast your glucose up > like a step function, and the response of your insulin soon follows > likewise. Then as the insulin depletes your blood of glucose, you > may experience a crash and actually need a quick fix of carbs to > rescue your body from a hypoglycemic attack. This see-saw effect can > be quite powerful on cravings and moods. My suggestion is to try > raising your fat intake (seeds, nuts, nut butters, olives, canola oil > spreads are the ones I use) to 20-25% and see what happens to your > cravings. I still need to monitor my calorie intake because it is > easy to consume more than my allotment much more quickly, but the > satiation is much more evident with the higher fat intake too. Superficially, a calorie is a calorie is a calorie, and it shouldn't matter whether it is fat, protein, carbohydrate or even alcohol. As long as total calories are kept low and nutrition is adequate, one should seemingly be able to successfully practice CRAN. Although some animal studies have indicated that high fat diets result in more body fat even though total calories are identical to controls, a study on humans has shown no weight gain with 70% fat in contrast to 10% fat when total calories are kept the same [AMERICAN JOURNAL OF CLINICAL NUTRITION 55:350-355 (1992)]. However, in the above study the subjects were "forced" to consume the diet they were given, which contained a constant calorie content irrespective of fat content. In another study, 303 women of normal body weight were randomly assigned to two groups, a control group which consumed about 39% fat and an intervention group which was put on a diet that reduced fat from 39% to 21.6% (target was 20%). After one year, the women in the low-fat group had lost an average of 3 kg (13 pounds) and had reduced calorie intake by 25%. The conclusion of the study was that ad libitum consumption of high-fat foods leads to chronic excess calorie consumption. [AMERICAN JOURNAL OF CLINICAL NUTRITION 54:821- 828 (1991)]. Your claim for greater satiety from fat is evidently not true for most people on a per-calorie basis. I have noticed this both in myself and also on the basis of reading weight-reduction books which indicate that one of the common denominators of people who lose weight and do not regain it is a reduction of the fats in their diet. My first recommendation for anyone wanting to lose weight or reduce calories is to stop eating meat and reduce consumption of other fatty foods. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Fri Mar 13 04:34:47 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id EAA22531; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 04:34:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from hertz.ukonline.co.uk (qmailr@hertz.ukonline.co.uk [195.40.112.13]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id EAA22519; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 04:34:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2037 invoked from network); 13 Mar 1998 11:40:10 -0000 Received: from lon8-11.ukonline.co.uk (HELO Notebook) (195.40.114.139) by hertz.ukonline.co.uk with SMTP; 13 Mar 1998 11:40:10 -0000 Message-ID: <35098835.19F7@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:25:51 -0800 From: Neil Kenning Reply-To: neil.k2@ukonline.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CRAN@ListService.net Subject: CR Methods: Are some methods easier than others? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Ben Best wrote: > ...... I think that anyone who pushes their calorie-restriction > hard enough will eventually find themselves obsessed with food, > compulsive about eating and vulnerable to binging. > But maybe I'm just rationalizing. And maybe not. Do some strategies require less thinking about than others? Eg (1) Intermittant fasting (1, 2 or 3 days each week) verses (2) An overall restriction in calories (calorie density and size) of each meal. Which is prefered by practictioners on this list? Cheers Neil >From owner-cran@ListService.net Fri Mar 13 11:32:24 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id LAA28705; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:32:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id LAA28604; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:32:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28949; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:31:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA28816; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:31:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:31:55 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: Appetite versus Hunger In-Reply-To: <199803121001.DAA00568@listservice.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Felix Ungman wrote: > Ben Best: > > I don't drink alcohol, but my attempt to practice CRAN rigorously has > >given me more understanding of what it feels like to be an alcoholic. I > >think that anyone who pushes their calorie-restriction hard enough will > >eventually find themselves obsessed with food, compulsive about eating > >and vulnerable to binging. But maybe I'm just rationalizing. > > well, if you don't get obsessed with food on CR, you probably should > see a doctor. I find binging very annoying, but try to tackle the > problem slighty different. I don't know what "will power" is, and > I'm not sure that I have such a thing. Instead I realize that I have > several complex feedback loops, that I have very little control over. > I can choose what to eat, but can't modify how the amino acids that I > eat stimulate me. Feeling guilty of binging might work once or twice, > but in the long rung guilt is more destructive than constructive. > I believe CR should be hazzle free. It's hard, but I'm sure it's > possible. "Calorie Restriction" is not a discrete (binary-type) entity. Calorie intakes of 2000, 1800, 1600, 1400, 1200, 1000, 800, 600, 400, 200, and 0 calories per day will all count as Calorie Restriction. If you choose 0 you are not going to get Adequate Nutrition (calorie deficiency!) and you will soon die. A person who practices CRAN hassle-free at 1800 calories per day might find themselves with the personality of a heroin-junkie at 800 calories per day. That was my basic point. I doubt that the optimum Calorie Restriction for Maximum Lifespan in humans (an undetermined value) is within anyone's "comfort zone". But there may be some exceptions. Nonetheless, there are techniques that people can learn to practice that can make a given level of CRAN more tolerable and workable. The easiest one I know of is to minimize fat consumption. Others include things like weighing food, rationing eating portions, only eating certain quantities of food at certain times of day, food choices of various kinds, avoiding being around food unnecessarily, don't keep high-calorie foods in your kitchen, etc. I now have a target weight of 120 pounds and my main task in the practice of CRAN is to find ways to maintain that weight with a minimum of discomfort. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Fri Mar 13 15:30:38 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id PAA00736; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:30:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id PAA00714; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:30:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA13133; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:30:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA17228; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:30:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:30:20 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: Low Fat Diet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Ben Best wrote: > women in the low-fat group had lost an average of 3 kg (13 pounds) and ^^^^^^^^^ OOPS!! Make that 6.6 pounds! -- Ben -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Sun Mar 15 03:44:47 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id DAA22044; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 03:44:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id DAA22039; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 03:44:44 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803151044.DAA22039@listservice.net> Received: (qmail 21820 invoked from network); 15 Mar 1998 10:44:42 -0000 Received: from userb525.uk.uudial.com (HELO yz34.dial.pipex.com) (193.149.82.254) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 1998 10:44:42 -0000 From: "Phil Harris" To: "Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver" Subject: Re: Low Fat Diet and cholesterol Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 10:43:34 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk While tidying came across extracts from Science 272 685-688, 3 May 1996, JL Breslow: Mouse Models of Atherosclerosis. Page 686, quote:- "One of the hallmarks of atherosclerosis is its exacerbation by high-cholesterol, high-fat diets. This effect is mimicked in apo-E deficient mice ( Nakashima Y et al., Aretioscler. thromb. 14, 133 (1994)). When these mice were fed a Western-type diet (containing 0.15% cholesterol and 21% fat, derived from mainly milk fat), their cholesterol levels rose to three to four times the levels of the low-cholesterol, low-fat diet, and their lesions increased in size and rate of progression." My understanding is that their are 'high-responders' to dietary cholesterol in the human population. For them, cholesterol-free (no animal product) low-fat diet could be wise. Not sure what is the basis of above percentages, but general point seems well made. Also interesting article in same Science, page 682, discusses arrhythmia "...can also be acquired. ...side effects...most of these medications block HERG channels..... observation provides a mechanistic link between an inherited and an acquired arrhythmia......[potassium supplementation] therapy likely to be effective in all acquired and inherited forms of LQT...." Phil Harris >From owner-cran@ListService.net Sun Mar 15 10:57:56 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id KAA20419; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 10:57:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id KAA20412; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 10:57:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01406; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 12:57:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA14388; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 12:57:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 12:57:34 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: Caloric Restriction Does not Slow Aging in Humans In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Ben Best wrote: > On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Doug Skrecky wrote: > > > Recent evidence indicates that the anti-aging effect of caloric > > restriction, which has been documented in rodents, is not operative in > > humans. > > > A low body-mass index does have a positive association with reduced > > mortality rates in humans. However recent research indicates that this is > > due to a negative association between BMI and physical fitness. After > > physical fitness is accounted for, there exists no further effect of BMI > > on mortality. See the following table from (International Journal of > > Obesity 19 Suppl: S41-S44 1995. Now that I have read this article, I have nothing to add to my previous critique -- it seems right on target. Except to note that your reference was incomplete. You should have noted that the article you were citing was from Volume 19 *Supplement 4* of 1995. By not giving the supplement number you delayed my ability to get a copy of this article by a week. > > In humans over 84 years of age BMI has not been found to exert any > > significant effect on mortality. (New England Journal of Medicine 338: > > 1-7 1998 & Arch Intern Med 157: 2249-2258 1997) Therefore since no > > association has been found between BMI and mortality in aged humans, then > > caloric restriction is not operative in modifying the rate of aging in > > humans. As I suspected, neither of these two studies you cited corrected for smoking or underlying disease. The NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE at least acknowledged this fact in the Discussion section -- even mentioning the likelihood that underlying disease is probably more common in older subjects, although the authors suggested that indirect evidence supports their conclusions. The authors also mentioned that all of their data except mortality came from self-reporting on questionnaires -- and that underreporting of body weight may increase with age. Your conclusions may be correct, but I'm not convinced. Epidemiological studies are not as easy to interpret as you imply. And BMI is, in particular, a can of worms for the elderly, considering that it does not actually measure leanness, calorie intake, or give an indication of nutritional adequacy (much less smoking or underlying disease). -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Mon Mar 16 11:22:16 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id LAA08956; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:22:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id LAA08933; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:22:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13399; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:21:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA11640; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:21:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:21:49 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Health Benefits of Alcohol? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk The February issue of the journal ADDICTION contains a research report which is probably the best study of the relationship between alcohol consumption and mortality which has ever been done. It is probably also the largest, since it pools the results of the best available previous studies. [ADDICTION 93(2):183-229 (1998)] Unlike many previous studies which have a single category for non-drinkers, this study carefully distinguished between former drinkers and long-term abstainers. Using this distinction, the reputed reduced mortality risk for light drinkers over long-term abstainers was disproven for both men and women. In the case of males, the confounding effect of grouping former drinkers with long-term abstainers was particularly illuminating. Six statistically significant differences were seen between the two groups. Compared to long-term abstainers, former drinkers were more likely to be: (1) heavy smokers (2) marijuana users (3) unemployed (4) depressed (5) less well educated and (6) have better educated fathers. The last result is somewhat puzzling, and the only explanation I can think-of is that it might be a marker for "downward mobility" -- people who are depressed & unemployed because they failed to achieve the standards of their parents. There have been fewer alcohol studies on women than on men, so there are less data available, and the results are less definite -- except to rule-out a definite conclusion that light drinkers have less mortality risk than long-term abstainers OR former drinkers. Evidence was found for demographic factors which might account for the mortality results of some studies. These factors are unrelated to the physical effects of alcohol. Both "long-term abstainers and former drinkers were more likely to have low income, had less education, were less likely to be employed and were less likely to be European American than light drinkers ..." -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Tue Mar 17 00:55:08 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id AAA19454; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:55:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from milestone.koan.de (root@milestone.koan.de [195.4.16.2]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id AAA19440; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:55:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from rdf2z (ppp2.koan.de [195.4.16.22]) by milestone.koan.de (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id IAA15711 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:50:56 -0100 Message-ID: <350E2BAB.1AF8@koan.de> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:52:11 +0100 From: Richard & Dawn Fedorowicz Reply-To: rdf2z@koan.de Organization: All Fired Up X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CRAN@ListService.net Subject: Re: Health Benefits of Alcohol? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Ben, I'm not convinced of the validity of a study that appears to cover such a small sector of society. Through my own experiences of mixing with people of all classes, educational backgrounds, in both civilian and miltary employment I can honestly say alcohol use goes across the board. Many highly educated people (those holding doctorates and so on) and highly paid individuals in highly responsible positions, drink - lightly in public situations but rather more in private. I showed this posting to a friend this morning; she happens to be a Royal Air Force Wing Commander, married to a more senior Officer, and they are both very well educated. She laughed and suggested that perhaps a lot of us aren't 'real drinkers'! :-) With all due respect we suggest that the results of this study are more to do with statistical manipulation. Regards, Dawn >From owner-cran@ListService.net Tue Mar 17 04:28:51 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id EAA28578; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:28:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from ip78.129.isdn.hogia.net (ip78.129.isdn.hogia.net [195.78.129.78]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id EAA28555; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:28:47 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803171128.EAA28555@listservice.net> Received: from 195.78.129.75 by ip78.129.isdn.hogia.net with SMTP (QuickMail Pro Server for MacOS 1.1d1); 17 MAR 98 12:26:02 UT X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:33:57 +0100 Subject: Vitamin C with sodium From: "Felix Ungman" To: CRAN@ListService.net Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Many brands of Vitamin C (the ones you put in a glass of water) contains sodium bicarbonate. Does this sodium count when you're estimating total daily sodium intake? FELIX'98 - CITIUS . ALTIUS . FORTIUS >From owner-cran@ListService.net Tue Mar 17 04:28:52 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id EAA28579; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:28:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from ip78.129.isdn.hogia.net (ip78.129.isdn.hogia.net [195.78.129.78]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id EAA28557; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:28:47 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803171128.EAA28557@listservice.net> Received: from 195.78.129.75 by ip78.129.isdn.hogia.net with SMTP (QuickMail Pro Server for MacOS 1.1d1); 17 MAR 98 12:26:00 UT X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:30:24 +0100 Subject: Re: Appetite versus Hunger From: "Felix Ungman" To: CRAN@ListService.net Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Ben Best: > "Calorie Restriction" is not a discrete (binary-type) entity. Calorie >intakes of 2000, 1800, 1600, 1400, 1200, 1000, 800, 600, 400, 200, and 0 >calories per day will all count as Calorie Restriction. It's funny, but my diet is kind of binary. I either eat 1600-1800 calories on steamed vegetables and rice, etc. Or I eat a "normal" diet. This weekend, my mere-human-diet mode was triggered by visiting a birthday party. And I could not bring myself back to CR until yesterday. For me, Hunger is not that important, it's seems that Appetite is the one in control. Although, if I go hungry for say more than a week, I get the feeling of being afraid of something. Must be some low-level starvation feedback. FELIX'98 - CITIUS . ALTIUS . FORTIUS >From owner-cran@ListService.net Tue Mar 17 08:05:50 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id IAA28138; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:05:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk (root@rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk [139.184.48.12]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id IAA28081; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:05:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from iane.ppp.cogs.susx.ac.uk ([139.184.53.39]) [139.184.53.39] by rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yExv1-00012C-00; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:04:44 +0000 Subject: Re: Health Benefits of Alcohol? Date: Tue, 17 Mar 98 15:11:37 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Ian Eiloart To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Message-Id: Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Richard & Dawn Fedorowicz (rdf2z@koan.de) said: >Ben, I'm not convinced of the validity of a study that appears to cover >such a small sector of society. I don't see that Ben says anything to suggest that the study covers a small section of society, unless you mean that 'Americans' is a small section. However, it appears that there are two aspects to this study, a primary study which distinguished between never drinkers and ex-drinkers, and a pooled analysis of previous studies, many of which had not made those distinctions. > >Through my own experiences of mixing with people of all classes, >educational backgrounds, in both civilian and miltary employment I can >honestly say alcohol use goes across the board. Many highly educated >people (those holding doctorates and so on) and highly paid individuals >in highly responsible positions, drink - lightly in public situations >but rather more in private. It does seem reasonable that ex-drinkers are likely to be people that have been persuaded to quit drinking by personal problems caused by acoholism. The six categories that Ben lists are not the categories from which the subjects were chosen, but happened to occur more among the ex-drinkers. > >I showed this posting to a friend this morning; she happens to be a >Royal Air Force Wing Commander, married to a more senior Officer, and >they are both very well educated. She laughed and suggested that >perhaps a lot of us aren't 'real drinkers'! :-) With all due respect >we suggest that the results of this study are more to do with >statistical manipulation. > >Regards, >Dawn > > Ben had said this: > > The February issue of the journal ADDICTION contains a research >report which is probably the best study of the relationship between >alcohol consumption and mortality which has ever been done. It is >probably also the largest, since it pools the results of the best >available previous studies. [ADDICTION 93(2):183-229 (1998)] > > Unlike many previous studies which have a single category for >non-drinkers, this study carefully distinguished between former >drinkers and long-term abstainers. Using this distinction, the >reputed reduced mortality risk for light drinkers over long-term >abstainers was disproven for both men and women. > > In the case of males, the confounding effect of grouping >former drinkers with long-term abstainers was particularly >illuminating. Six statistically significant differences were seen >between the two groups. Compared to long-term abstainers, former >drinkers were more likely to be: (1) heavy smokers (2) marijuana users >(3) unemployed (4) depressed (5) less well educated and (6) have better >educated fathers. The last result is somewhat puzzling, and the only >explanation I can think-of is that it might be a marker for "downward >mobility" -- people who are depressed & unemployed because they failed >to achieve the standards of their parents. > > There have been fewer alcohol studies on women than on men, so there >are less data available, and the results are less definite -- except to >rule-out a definite conclusion that light drinkers have less mortality >risk than long-term abstainers OR former drinkers. Evidence was found for >demographic factors which might account for the mortality results of some >studies. These factors are unrelated to the physical effects of alcohol. >Both "long-term abstainers and former drinkers were more likely to have >low income, had less education, were less likely to be employed and were >less likely to be European American than light drinkers ..." > > -------------------------------------------- > Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) > http://www.benbest.com/ > > -- cheers, Ian http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/iane http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/iane/coops >From owner-cran@ListService.net Tue Mar 17 09:44:09 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id JAA04567; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:44:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk (root@rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk [139.184.48.12]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id JAA04510; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:43:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from iane.ppp.cogs.susx.ac.uk ([139.184.53.39]) [139.184.53.39] by rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yEzRy-0004NH-00; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:42:51 +0000 Subject: Re: Vitamin C with sodium Date: Tue, 17 Mar 98 16:49:13 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Ian Eiloart To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Message-Id: Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Felix Ungman (felix@objectzone.se) said: >Many brands of Vitamin C (the ones you put in a glass of water) >contains sodium bicarbonate. Does this sodium count when you're >estimating total daily sodium intake? > >FELIX'98 - CITIUS . ALTIUS . FORTIUS > Yes. -- cheers, Ian http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/iane http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/iane/coops >From owner-cran@ListService.net Tue Mar 17 10:18:54 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id KAA18719; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:18:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from vcn.bc.ca (oberon@opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id KAA18694; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:18:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (oberon@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA27659; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:16:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:16:42 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Skrecky To: Ian Eiloart cc: CRAN@ListService.net Subject: Re: Vitamin C with sodium In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk > >Many brands of Vitamin C (the ones you put in a glass of water) > >contains sodium bicarbonate. Does this sodium count when you're > >estimating total daily sodium intake? > > Why is this important? >From owner-cran@ListService.net Tue Mar 17 10:33:15 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id KAA25283; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:33:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id KAA25266; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:33:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA27146; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:31:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA13766; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:31:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:30:59 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: Vitamin C with sodium In-Reply-To: <199803171128.EAA28555@listservice.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Felix Ungman wrote: > Many brands of Vitamin C (the ones you put in a glass of water) > contains sodium bicarbonate. Does this sodium count when you're > estimating total daily sodium intake? Sodium bicarbonate has as much sodium in a molecule as sodium chloride (table salt). But most people with healthy kidneys needn't worry too much about their sodium intake. My understanding is that sodium only elevates blood pressure in about 10% of the population, primarily those who are elderly or obese. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Wed Mar 18 00:59:49 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id AAA05452; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:59:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id AAA05443; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:59:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA25720; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:59:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA23829; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:59:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:59:47 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: Health Benefits of Alcohol? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Ian Eiloart wrote: > Richard & Dawn Fedorowicz (rdf2z@koan.de) said: > > >Ben, I'm not convinced of the validity of a study that appears to cover > >such a small sector of society. > > I don't see that Ben says anything to suggest that the study covers a > small section of society, unless you mean that 'Americans' is a small > section. However, it appears that there are two aspects to this study, a > primary study which distinguished between never drinkers and ex-drinkers, > and a pooled analysis of previous studies, many of which had not made > those distinctions. Ian, It was very big of you to reply to Dawn the way you did (I omitted most of the reply for the sake of brevity) in light of your earlier statements about the "health benefits of alcohol". I don't know either what Dawn meant by a "small sector of society". The ADDICTION study [ADDICTION 93(2):183-229 (1998)] was actually a very large one. Large enough to not only discriminate between ex-drinkers and long-term abstainers, but to find 6 statistically significant differences between the males. I neglected to mention that among the females, there were 5 statistically significant differences between former drinkers and long-term abstainers. Former drinkers tended to be: (1) heavy smokers (2) in poorer health (3) unmarried (4) less religious (5) better educated. Since seeing this article, I have attempted to survey the literature about alcohol & mortality, and with only a very few exceptions these studies have grouped ex-drinkers with long-term abstainers under the rubric "non-drinkers". I have found one exception, however, a very large study of over 100,000 people done in 1990 [AMERICAN JOURNAL OF CARDIOLOGY 66:1237-1242] This study established that light drinkers have no less risk of mortality than lifetime abstainers for non-cardiovascular disease, but do have lower coronary artery disease (CAD) mortality. Even in the area of cardiovascular disease, the results are mixed: "Use of alcohol was associated with higher risk of mortality from hypertension, hemorrhagic stroke and cardiomyopathy, but with lower risk from CAD, occlusive stoke and nonspecific cardiovascular disease. There is good evidence that light alcohol drinking increases HDL cholesterol and may have an anti-thrombotic effect. With respect to the latter, low-dose alcohol is like aspirin in reducing clotting. And like aspirin, with less clotting there is less change of coronary artery disease, but a greater danger of hemorragic stroke. An editorial in the December 1997 issue of the JOURNAL OF THE ROYAL SOCIETY OF MEDICINE [ 90(12):651 ] concludes that in light of the many obvious health hazards of alcohol (including temporary impairment of neurological function) the availability of so many other cardiovascular drugs [ I would add niacin, weight loss and exercise ] "and that the benefits of alcohol are small and ill-understood" that the recommendation to be a light drinker is "not only meaningless but also irresponsible". -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Wed Mar 18 01:29:04 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id BAA12665; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:29:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id BAA12658; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:29:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA26391; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 03:28:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA09874; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 03:28:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 03:28:43 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: Low Fat Diet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk > On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Doug Younkin wrote: [snip] > > My suggestion is to try > > raising your fat intake (seeds, nuts, nut butters, olives, canola oil > > spreads are the ones I use) to 20-25% and see what happens to your > > cravings. I still need to monitor my calorie intake because it is > > easy to consume more than my allotment much more quickly, but the > > satiation is much more evident with the higher fat intake too. On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Ben Best wrote: [snip] > In another study, 303 women of normal body > weight were randomly assigned to two groups, a control group which > consumed about 39% fat and an intervention group which was put on a diet > that reduced fat from 39% to 21.6% (target was 20%). After one year, the > women in the low-fat group had lost an average of 3 kg (13 pounds) and > had reduced calorie intake by 25%. The conclusion of the study was that ad > libitum consumption of high-fat foods leads to chronic excess calorie > consumption. [AMERICAN JOURNAL OF CLINICAL NUTRITION 54:821- 828 (1991)]. > > Your claim for greater satiety from fat is evidently not true > for most people on a per-calorie basis. I don't mean to rub it in, but I have been looking into this subject more carefully and all of the studies I have found reinforce the idea that fat has a low capacity for satiation. Two notable studies on this subject were in the AMERICAN JOURAL OF CLINICAL NUTRITION. The first study [ 57(suppl):772S-778S (1993) ] demonstated that a 362 calorie supplement of carbohydrate given at breakfast measurably reduced appetite, but a 362 calorie fat supplement had *NO* effect on appetite. It was also demonstrated that when voluntarily eating foods from a range of either high-fat or high-carbohydrate foods, obese subjects at twice as many calories when selecting from the high-fat foods as opposed to when selecting from the high-carbohydrate foods. The second study placed a group of women (healthy, non-smoking, age 22-41 from university students & staff) on three 2-week diets in the course of 6 weeks: a low-fat diet (15-20% fat) for 2 weeks, a medium-fat diet for 2 weeks (30-35% fat) and a high-fat diet (45-50% fat) for 2 weeks. On the low-fat diet the women consumed 11.3% fewer calories compared to the medium-fat diet. On the high-fat diet the women consumed 15.4% more calories compared to the medium-fat diet. [ 46:886-92 (1987) ] Moral of the story: to reduce your calorie intake with a minimum of strain & discomfort -- CUT THE FAT!! -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 19 01:54:40 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id BAA11814; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 01:54:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from vcn.bc.ca (oberon@opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id BAA11806; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 01:54:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (oberon@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA15919 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:54:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:54:40 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Skrecky To: cran@listservice.net Subject: sodium and blood pressure Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Authors Kotchen TA. Kotchen JM. Institution Department of Medicine, Medical College of Wisconsin, Milwaukee 53226, USA. Title Dietary sodium and blood pressure: interactions with other nutrients. [Review] [61 refs] Source American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 65(2 Suppl):708S-711S, 1997 Feb. Abstract This paper reviews the evidence that salt sensitivity of blood pressure is related both to the anion ingested with sodium as well as to other components of the diet. In several experimental models of salt-sensitive hypertension and in humans, blood pressure is not increased by a high sodium intake provided with anions other than chloride. Salt-induced increase of blood pressure depends on the concomitant ingestion of both sodium and chloride. Both epidemiologic and clinical evidence suggest that sodium chloride-induced increases of blood pressure are augmented by diets deficient in potassium or calcium. In experimental animals, a high intake of simple carbohydrates also augments sodium chloride sensitivity of blood pressure. These observations indicate that the effect of dietary sodium on blood pressure is modulated by other components of the diet. [References: 61] >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 19 02:05:41 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id CAA13888; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 02:05:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from vcn.bc.ca (oberon@opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id CAA13883; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 02:05:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (oberon@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA20008; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 01:05:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 01:05:42 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Skrecky To: cran@listservice.net cc: crsociety@lists.csn.net Subject: dietary fat & body fat Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk "Is Dietary Fat a Major Determinant of Body Fat?" American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 67(Sup): 556S-562S 1998 Abstract: The precentage of energy from dietary fat is widely believed to be an important determinant of body fat, and several mechanisms have been proposed to account for such a relation. Comparisons of both diets and the prevalence of obesity between affluent and poor countries have been used to support a causal association, but these contrasts are seriously confounded by differences in physical acitivity and food availability. Within areas of similar economic development, regional intake of fat and prevalence of obesity have not been positively correlated. Randomized trials are the preferable method to evaluate the effect of dietary fat on adiposity, and are feasible because the number of subjects needed is not large. In short-term trials, a modest reduction in body weight is typically seen in individuals randomly assigned to diets with a lower percentage of energy from fat. However compensatory mechanisms appear to operate because in trials lasting >=1 y, fat consumption within the range of 18-40% of energy appears to have little if any effect on body fatness. Moreover, within the United States, a substantial decline in the percentage of energy from fat consumed during the past two decades has corresponded with a massive increase in obesity. Diets high in fat do not appear to be the primary cause of the high prevalence of excess body fat in our society, and reductions in fat will not be a solution. >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 19 10:55:52 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id KAA12350; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:55:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id KAA12330; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:55:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20097; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:55:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA15710; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:55:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:55:44 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: dietary fat & body fat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Doug Skrecky wrote: > "Is Dietary Fat a Major Determinant of Body Fat?" > American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 67(Sup): 556S-562S 1998 > > Abstract: > > The precentage of energy from dietary fat is widely believed to be an > important determinant of body fat, and several mechanisms have been > proposed to account for such a relation. Comparisons of both diets and > the prevalence of obesity between affluent and poor countries have been > used to support a causal association, but these contrasts are seriously > confounded by differences in physical acitivity and food availability. > Within areas of similar economic development, regional intake of fat and > prevalence of obesity have not been positively correlated. Randomized > trials are the preferable method to evaluate the effect of dietary fat on > adiposity, and are feasible because the number of subjects needed is not > large. In short-term trials, a modest reduction in body weight is > typically seen in individuals randomly assigned to diets with a lower > percentage of energy from fat. However compensatory mechanisms appear to > operate because in trials lasting >=1 y, fat consumption within the range > of 18-40% of energy appears to have little if any effect on body fatness. > Moreover, within the United States, a substantial decline in the > percentage of energy from fat consumed during the past two decades has > corresponded with a massive increase in obesity. Diets high in fat do not > appear to be the primary cause of the high prevalence of excess body fat > in our society, and reductions in fat will not be a solution. Douglas, I have recently posted the results of 3 very well-controlled studies indicating the effect of dietary fat in increasing body due to the lack of satiation by fat. I also cited an experiment in which isocaloric conditions were *forced* which demonstrated no increase in adiposity. Epidemiological studies comparing countries and reference to the decline in fat consumption in the United States associated with the increased obesity seen in recent years are very weak evidence to contrast to direct experiments with people & animals. As I have said many times before, epidemiological studies usually involve a host of unrecognized & unacknowledged variables which provide misleading results. It is VERY difficult to control for conditions in epidemiological studies -- especially when all of the variables are unknown. I also mentioned the trend in the United States in my posting about the Obesity presentations at A4M. The increase in obesity could be due to very many social & dietary changes which have occurred in the past decades other than the reduction in fat intake. "Labor-saving devices" are often blamed -- associated with an increasingly sedentary lifestyle and more automation in the workplace for tasks requiring physical exertion. A decline in tobacco use could also be a cause. As I have noted, almost all "fat-free" products I see are LOADED with sugar. Obesity affects about a third of the population now, and that group may have other reasons for consuming more food -- or perhaps that segment is exceptional in continuing to consume more fat. Epidemiological studies too often leave you guessing. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 19 11:53:14 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id LAA03060; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:53:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id LAA02956; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:52:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28866; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:52:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA19235; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:52:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:52:54 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Trihydroxystilbene resveratrol Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Trihydroxystilbene resveratrol, present in some grape juice and in red wine, is known to be a modulator of lipid and lipoprotein synthesis. An experiment to investigate the effects of red wine, white wine, commercial grape juice and resveratrol-enriched grape juice was conducted at the University of Toronto [CLINICA CHIMICA ACTA 246:183-193 (1996)]. Subjects consumed either 375ml/day of wine or 500ml/day of grape juice for 4 weeks following 2 weeks of abstinance. Neither grape juice had much effect on lipids or lipoproteins. An 11% increase in HDL cholesterol after 4 weeks was attributed to ethanol. Ethanol also increases apolipoprotein A-I, but in this experiment apo A-I was increased 11% and 7% for red and white wine respectively. However, plasma triglycerides increased 26% with red wine and total cholesterol increased 6% -- with no increase seen for white wine. This result is in agreement with an earlier study [AMERICAN JOURNAL OF CARDIOLOGY 71:467-469 (1993)] which indicated a slightly higher mortality from cardiovascular disease for those drinking only red wine compared to those drinking only white wine (although both wines have lower risk of cardiovascular disease than is seen for spirits or beer). So evidently resveratrol is not as effective for lipid and lipoprotein modulation in humans as animal experiments suggested. The reference Phil Harris posted concerning resveratrol in October [SCIENCE 275:218-220 (1997)] was concerned with its anti-carcinogenic effect, not its effect on lipid or lipoprotein regulation. As my recent postings have indicated, I think the reputed benefits from alcohol by virtue of its HDL elevating effect have been grossly over-rated. A person practicing CRAN would probably have and excellent HDL/LDL profile anyway, and would probably be better off without extra calories from alcohol -- or the many metabolic disturbances it creates. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Sat Mar 21 09:34:17 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id JAA15470; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 09:34:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from www.cedarnet.org (www.cedarnet.org [206.29.224.1]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id JAA15460; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 09:34:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from compaq (ppp149062.usmo.com [206.27.149.62]) by www.cedarnet.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA12504; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 10:34:10 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803211634.KAA12504@www.cedarnet.org> From: "Doug Younkin" To: CRAN@ListService.net, crsociety@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 10:33:17 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Low Fat Diet References: In-reply-to: Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Ben, I don't really care if you "rub it in" or not. My point was to mention something I have observed about myself, and to offer it as something you might consider trying for yourself. You may quote as many population studies as you wish, however they will not negate an individual experience. (This is an important statistical distinction, just as the distinction between improving MEAN lifespan and MAXIMUM lifespan is an important statistical distinction which we had discussed previously.) In any case, my research indicates that in general for populations, the type of fat in a diet is much more important to prevent disease than the percent of calories from fat. That is why I try to limit (or nearly eliminate) saturated fat from my diet and increase monounsaturated, include a small amount of omega-6, and assure adequate intakes of omega-3 (primarily from flax and pumpkin seeds, with occasional fish). Though I said that _I_ experience more satiation by keeping the fat intake at 20-25% rather than at about 10%, _I_ still need to watch calorie consumption carefully because it is more easy to consume calories with a higher fat diet. I will post a list of abstracts from Medline regarding studies of different fat intakes and disease incidence. Though the trends are not conclusive, the data tend to indicate that saturated fats increase disease states, monounsaturates tend to be fairly neutral, omega-6 tends to be good except for some indication of disease (like blood clotting if taken in excess), and omega-3 tends to be good except for some indication of disease (like blood thinning [stroke] if taken in excess). All things are on a continuum, whether it is total calories, % of calories from fat, % of calories from protein (or just amount of protein, another topic previously discussed), types of fat, water intake (another discussion), anti-oxidants (another discussion), whatever. Both ends of each continuum lead to increased disease states, aging, or death. Somewhere between the ends is an optimum for each diet component, but will the optimum for cardiac health be the optimum for cancer prevention, or stroke, or XXX organ function, or longevity, or enjoyment of life? And is what gives the best results for a population of a test species also be optimum for a population of humans? And will the optimum for human populations be optimum for YOU or ME or some other individual? To answer this question you must move from the exclusive realm of statistics to include a much greater emphasis on individual diagnostic criteria. I need to monitor my own measures of health (biomarkers or whatever you want to call them), and with a medical care practitioner that I trust, chart a course for my own health maintenance and improvement. For me, that includes moderate caloric restriction (around 2000 calories per day), and recently, moderate daily aerobic and resistance training. That maintains my weight at about 125 pounds (I am 6 ft 1 in tall). My personal biomarker of blood pressure has recently gradually dropped to about 105/67. My pulse is still around 80, but I expect that to drop gradually as I continue with my aerobic exercises. It is nice to read about other studies, but I only have control over myself, so I am giving priority to monitoring and improving my diet composition and biomarkers. I agree that the question of which biomarkers are most meaningful has not been answered, but I can't wait for definitive answers. I must research and talk and come to my own conclusions and get on with my own life extension program. I am 43 years old (44 next month) and today is the time to take action. I am sure everyone else on these lists are doing the same, in their own way and at their own pace. I have no right to judge the program of another, since I am doing the best I can myself. I wish everyone success in their endeavors to improve and lengthen their lifespans. It is a very personal choice we make, but it is good to have a forum to share with others on our journey. Doug Younkin =================== > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 03:28:43 -0500 (EST) > From: Ben Best > To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver > Subject: Re: Low Fat Diet > > On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Doug Younkin wrote: > > [snip] > > > My suggestion is to try > > > raising your fat intake (seeds, nuts, nut butters, olives, canola oil > > > spreads are the ones I use) to 20-25% and see what happens to your > > > cravings. I still need to monitor my calorie intake because it is > > > easy to consume more than my allotment much more quickly, but the > > > satiation is much more evident with the higher fat intake too. > > On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Ben Best wrote: > > [snip] > > In another study, 303 women of normal body > > weight were randomly assigned to two groups, a control group which > > consumed about 39% fat and an intervention group which was put on a diet > > that reduced fat from 39% to 21.6% (target was 20%). After one year, the > > women in the low-fat group had lost an average of 3 kg (13 pounds) and > > had reduced calorie intake by 25%. The conclusion of the study was that ad > > libitum consumption of high-fat foods leads to chronic excess calorie > > consumption. [AMERICAN JOURNAL OF CLINICAL NUTRITION 54:821- 828 (1991)]. > > > > Your claim for greater satiety from fat is evidently not true > > for most people on a per-calorie basis. > > I don't mean to rub it in, but I have been looking into this subject > more carefully and all of the studies I have found reinforce the idea that > fat has a low capacity for satiation. [snip] > Moral of the story: to reduce your calorie intake with a minimum of > strain & discomfort -- CUT THE FAT!! > > -------------------------------------------- > Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) > http://www.benbest.com/ > >From owner-cran@ListService.net Sat Mar 21 09:34:19 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id JAA15487; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 09:34:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from www.cedarnet.org (www.cedarnet.org [206.29.224.1]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id JAA15468; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 09:34:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from compaq (ppp149062.usmo.com [206.27.149.62]) by www.cedarnet.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA12507; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 10:34:15 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803211634.KAA12507@www.cedarnet.org> From: "Doug Younkin" To: CRAN@ListService.net, crsociety@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 10:33:16 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Medline abstracts: dietary fat composition studies Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Here are some abstracts from Medline regarding dietary fat types and effects on health. Doug Younkin ================================== Dietary monounsaturated fatty acids and serum lipoprotein levels in healty subjects. Mensink RP Atherosclerosis 1994 Oct 110 Suppl: S65-8 Abstract Effects of monounsaturated fatty acids on serum total cholesterol levels in man are often described as 'neutral'. The term neutral, however, is often misinterpreted. It does not mean that one can simply add monounsaturates to the diet without changing the serum total cholesterol level but that, under iso-caloric conditions, monounsaturated fatty acids have similar effects on serum total cholesterol as carbohydrates. Diets high in monounsaturated fatty acids, however, have a more favourable effect on the distribution of cholesterol over the various lipoproteins as compared with diets high in carbohydrates. Thus, the term neutral is misleading. In addition, in contrast with earlier studies, recent studies suggest that at realistic intakes, polyunsaturates and monounsaturates have comparable effects on serum lipoprotein levels. At present, there is no unequivocal explanation to resolve this discrepancy. However, these findings offer subjects on cholesterol-lowering diets a larger choice of food items to choose from to replace products high in the serum cholesterol-raising saturated fatty acids. Dietary Fats, Unsaturated ; Fatty Acids, Monounsaturated ; Human ; Lipoproteins, HDL Cholesterol ; Support, Non-U.S. Gov't ; Author Address Department of Human Biology, Limburg University, Maastricht, The Netherlands. ============================================ Relative effects of dietary saturated, monounsaturated, and polyunsaturated fatty acids on cardiac arrhythmias in rats. McLennan PL Am J Clin Nutr 1993 Feb 57:2 207-12 Abstract This study compared monounsaturated oleic acid with n-6 and n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) for their ability to modify the vulnerability to cardiac arrhythmias during ischemia or reperfusion in rats. Replacement of saturated animal fat in the diet with oleic acid-rich olive oil did not significantly alter the incidence of ventricular fibrillation or other cardiac arrhythmias. Replacement with either n-6-rich sunflower seed oil or n-3-rich fish oil reduced the incidence and severity of arrhythmias occurring in ischemia. The fish oil significantly reduced reperfusion arrhythmias independently of antecedent ischemic arrhythmias. Fatal ventricular fibrillation was significantly reduced by n-6 (8%; n = 25) and n-3 (0%; n = 24) PUFA but not by monounsaturates (36%; n = 25) compared with saturated fat (42%; n = 24). The results suggest that dietary replacement of saturated fats by n-6 and especially n-3 PUFA but not monounsaturated fatty acids can reduce the likelihood of an ischemic event leading to sudden cardiac death. Author Address Cardiac Research Unit, Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization, Adelaide, Australia. ============================================== Effects oflong-term monounsaturated- vs polyunsaturated-enriched diets on lipoproteins in healthy men and women [see comments] Mata P, Alvarez-Sala LA, Rubio MJ, Nuno J, De Oya M Am J Clin Nutr 1992 Apr 55:4 846-50 Abstract The effect of dietary-fat saturation on plasma lipoprotein concentrations was assessed in 46 men and 32 women placed on a diet enriched in polyunsaturated fatty acids (sunflower oil) for 12 wk and, under isocaloric conditions, on a diet enriched in monounsaturated fatty acids (olive oil) for the next 16 wk in men and 28 wk in women. Fat comprised 37% of the total energy intake in men and 36% in women. At the end of the monounsaturated fatty acid diet no change occurred in total cholesterol (TC) in men but it increased by 9% in women. High-density-lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol increased by 17% in men and by 30% in women. The atherogenic index (TC:HDL cholesterol) fell significantly in both sexes. No significant changes occurred in plasma low-density-lipoprotein cholesterol or in total triglycerides values. These data show that when compared with polyunsaturates, monounsaturates increased HDL cholesterol and reduced the atherogenic risk profile in both sexes. Author Address Department of Internal Medicine, Fundacion Jimenez Diaz, Universidad Autonoma de Madrid, Spain. ================================================== Effects of a monounsaturated rapeseed oil and a polyunsaturated sunflower oil diet on lipoprotein levels in humans. Valsta LM, Jauhiainen M, Aro A, KatanMB, Mutanen M Arterioscler Thromb 1992 Jan 12:1 50-7 Abstract The effects of high oleic acid rapeseed oil compared with polyunsaturated fats on serum lipoprotein levels are largely unknown. Therefore, we fed 30 women and 29 men a baseline diet rich in saturated fat, which was followed by a diet rich in high oleic and low erucic acid rapeseed oil (total energy content of fat, 38%; saturates, 12.4%; monounsaturates, 16%; n-6 polyunsaturates, 6%; and n-3 polyunsaturates, 2%) and one rich in sunflower oil (total energy content of fat, 38%; saturates, 12.7%; monounsaturates, 10%; n-6 polyunsaturates, 13%; and n-3 polyunsaturates, 0%). The oils were incorporated into mixed natural diets that were dispensed in a random order for 3.5 weeks each in a blinded crossover design. The diet composition was confirmed by analysis of duplicate diets. Both test diets reduced serum total cholesterol (TC) and low density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol levels from baseline, the monounsaturated rapeseed oil diet more than the polyunsaturated sunflower oil diet (TC: -15% versus -12%, p less than 0.01; LDL cholesterol: -23% versus -17%, p less than 0.01). Very low density lipoprotein (VLDL) cholesterol and total, VLDL, and LDL triglyceride levels were lower during the sunflower oil diet compared with the rapeseed oil diet. Total high density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol levels remained unchanged by both diets. The consumption of rapeseed oil resulted in a more favorable HDL2 to LDL cholesterol ratio (0.43 +/- 0.19 versus 0.39 +/- 0.18, p less than 0.01) and an apolipoprotein A-I to B ratio (3.0 +/- 1.4 versus 2.4 +/- 1.6, p less than 0.001) than did the sunflower oil.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS) Author Address Department of Nutrition, University of Helsinki, Finland. ================================================ Dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids and composition of human aortic plaques [see comments] Felton CV, Crook D, Davies MJ, Oliver MF Lancet 1994 Oct 29 344:8931 1195-6 Abstract How long-term dietary intake of essential fatty acids affects the fatty-acid content of aortic plaques is not clear. We compared the fatty-acid composition of aortic plaques with that of post-mortem serum and adipose tissue, in which essential fatty-acid content reflects dietary intake. Positive associations were found between serum and plaque omega 6 (r = 0.75) and omega 3 (r = 0.93) polyunsaturated fatty acids, and monounsaturates (r = 0.70), and also between adipose tissue and plaque omega 6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (r = 0.89). No associations were found with saturated fatty acids. These findings imply a direct influence of dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids on aortic plaque formation and suggest that current trends favouring increased intake of polyunsaturated fatty acids should be reconsidered. Author Address Wynn Institute for Metabolic Research, London, UK. ================================================ Effect of dietary fatty acids on serum lipids and lipoproteins. A meta-analysis of 27 trials. Mensink RP, Katan MB Arterioscler Thromb 1992 Aug 12:8 911-9 Abstract To calculate the effect of changes in carbohydrate and fatty acid intake on serum lipid and lipoprotein levels, we reviewed 27 controlled trials published between 1970 and 1991 that met specific inclusion criteria. These studies yielded 65 data points, which were analyzed by multiple regression analysis using isocaloric exchanges of saturated (sat), monounsaturated (mono), and polyunsaturated (poly) fatty acids versus carbohydrates (carb) as the independent variables. For high density lipoprotein (HDL) we found the following equation: delta HDL cholesterol (mmol/l) = 0.012 x (carb----sat) + 0.009 x (carb----mono) + 0.007 x (carb---- poly) or, in milligrams per deciliter, 0.47 x (carb----sat) + 0.34 x (carb----mono) + 0.28 x (carb----poly). Expressions in parentheses denote the percentage of daily energy intake from carbohydrates that is replaced by saturated, cis-monounsaturated, or polyunsaturated fatty acids. All fatty acids elevated HDL cholesterol when substituted for carbohydrates, but the effect diminished with increasing unsaturation of the fatty acids. For low density lipoprotein (LDL) the equation was delta LDL cholesterol (mmol/l) = 0.033 x (carb----sat) - 0.006 x (carb----mono) - 0.014 x (carb----poly) or, in milligrams per deciliter, 1.28 x (carb----sat) - 0.24 x (carb----mono) - 0.55 x (carb---- poly). The coefficient for polyunsaturates was significantly different from zero, but that for monounsaturates was not. For triglycerides the equation was delta triglycerides (mmol/l) = -0.025 x (carb----sat) - 0.022 x (carb----mono) - 0.028 x (carb---- poly) or, in milligrams per deciliter, -2.22 x (carb----sat) - 1.99 x (carb----mono) - 2.47 x (carb----poly).(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS) Author Address Department of Human Biology, Limburg University, Maastricht, The Netherlands. ============================================== Compared with dietary monounsaturated and saturated fat, polyunsaturated fat protects African green monkeys from coronary artery atherosclerosis. Rudel LL, Parks JS, Sawyer JK Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol 1995 Dec 15:12 2101-10 Abstract Atherogenic diets enriched in saturated, n-6 polyunsaturated, and monounsaturated fatty acids were fed to African green monkeys for 5 years to define effects on plasma lipoproteins and coronary artery atherosclerosis. The monkeys fed polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fat had similar plasma concentrations of LDL cholesterol, and these values were significantly lower than for LDL in the animals fed saturated fat. Plasma HDL cholesterol concentrations were comparable in animals fed saturated and monounsaturated fat and were significantly higher than in animals fed polyunsaturated fat. Thus, the monounsaturated fat group had the lowest LDL/HDL ratio. LDL particle size was largest in the saturated and monounsaturated fat groups, significantly larger than in the polyunsaturated fat group. LDL particle enrichment with cholesteryl oleate was the greatest in the animals fed monounsaturated fat, next greatest in the saturated fat-fed animals, and was least in the polyunsaturated fat-fed animals. Coronary artery atherosclerosis as measured by intimal area was less in the polyunsaturated fat compared with the saturated fat groups, was less in the animals fed polyunsaturated fat compared with the monounsaturated fat-fed animals, but did not differ between the monounsaturated and saturated fat groups. Cholesteryl ester, particularly cholesteryl oleate, accumulation in the coronary arteries was also similar between groups fed monounsaturated and saturated fat but was minimal in the animals fed polyunsaturated fat. In sum, the monkeys fed monounsaturated fat developed equivalent amounts of coronary artery atherosclerosis as those fed saturated fat, but monkeys fed polyunsaturated fat developed less. The beneficial effects of the lower LDL and higher HDL in the animals fed monounsaturated fat apparently were offset by the atherogenic shifts in LDL particle composition. Dietary polyunsaturated fat appears to result in the least amount of coronary artery atherosclerosis because it prevents cholesteryl oleate accumulation in LDL and the coronary arteries in these primates. Author Address Department of Comparative Medicine, Bowman Gray School of Medicine of Wake Forest University, Winston-Salem, NC 27157-1040, USA. ============================================== Effects on blood pressure, glucose, and lipid levels of a high-monounsaturated fat diet compared with a high-carbohydrate diet in NIDDM subjects. Rasmussen OW, Thomsen C, Hansen KW, Vesterlund M, Winther E, Hermansen K Diabetes Care 1993 Dec 16:12 1565-71 Abstract OBJECTIVE--To compare the influence on blood pressure, glucose, and lipid levels of a diet rich in monounsaturated fatty acids with an isocaloric, high-carbohydrate diet in 15 NIDDM subjects. RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS--A crossover design with diet interventions and wash-out periods of 3 wk was applied. The patients were randomly assigned to a 3-wk treatment with a high-carbohydrate diet containing 50% of energy as carbohydrate and 30% of energy as fat (10% of energy as monounsaturated fatty acids) or an isocaloric diet with 30% of energy as carbohydrate and 50% of energy as fat (30% of energy as monounsaturated fatty acids). On the last day of the two diets, 24-h ambulatory blood pressure was measured and day profiles of glucose, hormones, and lipids were performed to a test menu rich in carbohydrates. RESULTS--The diet rich in monounsaturated fat reduced daytime systolic (131 +/- 3 vs. 137 +/- 3 mmHg, P < 0.04) and 24-h systolic blood pressure (126 +/- 8 vs. 130 +/- 10 mmHg, P < 0.03) as well as daytime diastolic (78 +/- 2 vs. 84 +/- 2 mmHg, P < 0.02) and diurnal diastolic blood pressure (75 +/- 6 vs. 78 +/- 5 mmHg, P < 0.03) as compared with the high-carbohydrate diet. Evidence of lowered blood glucose levels on the high-monounsaturated diet compared with the high-carbohydrate diet were found with lower fasting blood glucose (6.1 +/- 0.3 vs. 6.8 +/- 0.5 mM, P < 0.05), lower average blood glucose levels (7.4 +/- 0.5 vs. 8.2 +/- 0.6 mM, P < 0.04), and peak blood glucose responses (9.9 +/- 0.6 vs. 11.3 +/- 0.7 mM, P < 0.02). The two diets had the same impact on lipid levels. CONCLUSIONS--A diet rich in monounsaturated fat has beneficial effects on blood pressure and glucose metabolism, whereas no adverse effects on lipid composition in NIDDM subjects is detected. Author Address Medical Department M, Aarhus Community Hospital, Denmark. >From owner-cran@ListService.net Sat Mar 21 21:42:39 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id VAA21236; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 21:42:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id VAA21029; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 21:41:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA15463; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 23:41:40 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA26033; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 23:41:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 23:41:39 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com Reply-To: Ben Best To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Essential Fatty Acids (EFAs) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk "Animals fed a fat-free diet fail to grow, develop skin and kidney lesions, and become infertile. Adding linolenic, lenoleic, and arachidonic acids to the diet cures all these deficiency symptoms." -- William Ganong Arachidonic acid can normally be synthesized from linoleic acid. Therefore lenoleic acid and linolenic acid are commonly regarded to be the only two known Essential Fatty Acids (EFAs). Arachidonic acid is the precursor of the eicosanoids (prostaglandins, thromboxanes & leukotrienes), which are short-lived hormone-like substances that act locally in the tissues where they are formed. Linolenic acid is also a precursor to biologically important lipids, notably eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) & docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). Linoleic acid is the common name of the unsaturated fatty acid with the Geneva nomenclature 9,12-octadecadienoic acid and the chemical code C18:2,n-6,9 all cis Linolenic acid is the common name of the unsaturated fatty acid with the Geneva nomenclature 9,12,15-octadecatrienoic acid and the chemical code C18:3,n-3,6,9 all cis C18:2 in the code indicates that the fatty acid chain length is 18 and that there are 2 double-bonds. All fatty acids have a methyl group at one end of a carbon chain and a carboxyl (acid) group at the other end. The Geneva nomenclature numbers the carbons beginning at the carboxyl group. Thus, the two positions of unsaturation (double-bonds) occur at carbon 9 & 12 for linoleic acid and the three positions of unsaturation occur at carbon 9, 12 & 15 for linolenic acid under the Geneva nomenclature. The chemical code, however, numbers the carbons from the methyl group, making the unsaturation carbon positions 6 & 9 for linoleic acid and 3, 6 & 9 for linolenic acid. Another convention for identifying the positions of the carbon atoms of a fatty acid call the first carbon next to the carboxyl group the alpha carbon, the second carbon the beta carbon, etc. The methyl carbon at the far end of the chain from the carboxyl group is always called the omega carbon, regardless of fatty acid chain length. Since the greatest biological activity of unsaturated fatty acids occurs at the methyl end, the position of the first unsaturation is critical. Therefore, linoleic acid is identified as an omega-6 (n-6) and linolenic acid is identified as an omega-3 (n-3) unsaturated fatty acid. Humans lack the capacity to synthesize double bonds beyond carbon 9 (Geneva nomenclature), which is part of the reason why linoleic & linolenic acids are EFAs. The double bonds of biologically active unsaturated fatty acids are spaced at 3-carbon intervals. Unsaturated carbon double bonds can occur in a *cis* or a *trans* configuration: H H H R \ / \ / C = C C = C / \ / \ R R R H *cis* *trans* *cis* double bonds are critical for the biological activity of EFAs, therefore configuration is important. EFAs are important structural components of biological membranes, and the *cis* configuration is important for flexibility. *Trans* fats are more solid, which is why unsaturated vegetable oils are artificially hydrogenated to reduce their fluidity in margarine. (In general, the greater the chain length & saturation of a fatty acid, the higher the melting point & the lower the water solubility.) Cooking unsaturated fats causes them to become oxidized and results in the development of *trans* fats and abnormal structures between fat molecules. There is some concern about the effects when *trans* fatty acids are incorporated into membranes where *cis* fatty acids would normally be. Air pollution, smoking, saturated fats, *trans*-fatty acids, viruses, alcohol and emotional stress can impede the synthesis of the n-6 derivatives of linoleic acid and the n-3 derivatives of linolenic acid. Synthesis also declines with aging. Therefore, a medical benefit is often seen by administering substances which would normally be metabolic products of the EFAs -- including arachidonic acid, EPA and DHA -- in addition to linoleic acid and linolenic acid themselves. Both n-3 & n-6 fatty acids are important for growth rate and mitochondrial function of liver & heart. The brain is 60% fat by dry weight, much of which is EFA (mostly n-3). n-6 in the diet lowers LDL, HDL, triglycerides and chylomicron levels in the blood. For a non-pregnant adult practicing CRAN, the n-6 requirement is probably about 5 grams per day, whereas the n-3 requirement would be not more than 1 gram per day. Dietary sources rich in n-6 are blackcurrant, walnuts, linseed oil, safflower oil, evening primrose oil, borage oil, sunflower oil, soybean oil and corn oil. Dietary sources of n-3 are linseed, walnuts, pumpkin seeds and many fish oils. The fish that are the best sources of n-3 are often remembered by the acronym SMASH (Salmon, Mackerel, Anchovies, Sardines & Herring), although cod liver oil is also a good source. REFERENCES ---------- MODERN NUTRITION IN HEALTH AND DISEASE (8th Edition) M.Shils,et.al.(1994) BIOCHEMISTRY (2nd Edition) P. Champe & R. Harvey (1994) THE FATS WE NEED TO EAT Jeannette Ewin (1995) REVIEW OF MEDICAL PHYSIOLOGY (16th Edition) William Ganong (1993) -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Sat Mar 21 23:09:04 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id XAA14329; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 23:09:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from www.cedarnet.org (www.cedarnet.org [206.29.224.1]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id XAA14319; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 23:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from compaq (ppp149022.usmo.com [206.27.149.22]) by www.cedarnet.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id AAA11456 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 00:09:05 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803220609.AAA11456@www.cedarnet.org> From: "Doug Younkin" To: CRAN@ListService.net Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 00:08:09 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Essential Fatty Acids (EFAs) In-reply-to: Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Ben, Thanks for this post about EFAs. This summarizes well what I have also found in my readings. By the way, linseed is also known as flax. Doug Younkin =================================== > From: Ben Best > Subject: Essential Fatty Acids (EFAs) [snip] > Dietary sources rich in n-6 are blackcurrant, walnuts, linseed oil, > safflower oil, evening primrose oil, borage oil, sunflower oil, soybean > oil and corn oil. Dietary sources of n-3 are linseed, walnuts, pumpkin > seeds and many fish oils. ...... >From owner-cran@ListService.net Sat Mar 21 23:09:06 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id XAA14355; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 23:09:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from www.cedarnet.org (www.cedarnet.org [206.29.224.1]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id XAA14328; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 23:09:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from compaq (ppp149022.usmo.com [206.27.149.22]) by www.cedarnet.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id AAA11459 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 00:09:08 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803220609.AAA11459@www.cedarnet.org> From: "Doug Younkin" To: CRAN@ListService.net Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 00:08:09 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Hazard of low cholesterol In-reply-to: Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk While we are on the topic of fat intake and blood lipids, there does appear to be a correlation between low blood cholestrol and dangerous mood states, which may be life shortening. Again, these are population trends and may not apply to all individuals. But it is something to be aware of and to look for if the circumstances match your own. Doug Younkin ==================================== 11:25 AM ET 03/14/98 Study links low cholesterol to violent death (Release at 5 p.m. EST, Saturday) PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) - Low cholesterol could be responsible for higher rates of violent death among some people, particularly men, a study released on Saturday suggests. Reseachers found that men with blood cholesterol levels of less than 160 milligrams per deciliter met with homicide, suicide or fatal accidents 50 to 80 percent more often than those with the highest levels of cholesterol. Women with low cholesterol were nearly 30 percent more prone to violent death, the study showed. The findings, published in the March 15 issue of the American College of Physicians' Annals of Internal Medicine, were based on computer-database surveys of more than 30 peer- reviewed medical reports and analyses from the United States and Europe. Some data examined for the study even showed a connection between low baseline cholesterol levels and antagonistic behavior among monkeys. Dr. Beatrice Golomb, staff physician at San Diego Veterans Affairs Medical Center in California, said the findings suggest a causal link between low cholesterol and violent death, even though the data was not backed up by control group studies. She said it is possible that low cholesterol is accompanied by a reduction in the brain chemical, serotonin, which is believed to control violent behavior. ``We know that low-serotonin people are more likely to commit suicide, especially by violent means, and homicide,'' explained Golomb, who also works as a research professor of psychiatry at the University of Southern California. Her research has obvious implications for the ongoing debate about cholesterol and health. A fat-like bodily substance found in the bloodstream, cholesterol has long been identified as a contributor to heart disease. Conventional wisdom has been to lower cholesterol levels through drugs, exercise and diets low in saturated fat. But heart-disease studies which show only beneficial effects of lowered cholesterol concentrate on a narrow segment of the population made up of people with highly compliant or ''pro-social'' personalities, Golomb said. These are subjects who can be counted on to comply with the demands of research. ``(The studies) exclude 85 percent of the population that is slightly less pro-social. And it's probably going to be that 85 percent that's at higher risk for adverse outcomes,'' she said. ^REUTERS@ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Sun Mar 22 12:22:53 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id MAA01699; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:22:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id MAA01687; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:22:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA15075; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:22:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA20014; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:22:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:22:50 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: Low Fat Diet In-Reply-To: <199803211634.KAA12504@www.cedarnet.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Doug Younkin wrote: > I don't really care if you "rub it in" or not. My point was > to mention something I have observed about myself, and to offer it as > something you might consider trying for yourself. You may quote as > many population studies as you wish, however they will not negate an > individual experience. (This is an important statistical > distinction, just as the distinction between improving MEAN lifespan > and MAXIMUM lifespan is an important statistical distinction which we > had discussed previously.) You are correct. There is much individual variation in the reaction to fats in the diet -- the standard deviation is quite large. You may be one of the people that is able to eat fat without overindulging and maintaining leanness. I actually have a reference for this in mouse studies, which I will cite in a review next week (after I have read Doug Skrecky's reference -- I told him I would not post further on this subject until I had read it). > In any case, my research indicates that in general for populations, > the type of fat in a diet is much more important to prevent > disease than the percent of calories from fat. That is why I try to > limit (or nearly eliminate) saturated fat from my diet and increase > monounsaturated, include a small amount of omega-6, and assure > adequate intakes of omega-3 (primarily from flax and pumpkin seeds, > with occasional fish). You wrote this before I posted my review of Essential Fatty Acids. As you can see, I am acknowledging the importance of these fats. > Though I said that _I_ experience more > satiation by keeping the fat intake at 20-25% rather than at about > 10%, _I_ still need to watch calorie consumption carefully because it > is more easy to consume calories with a higher fat diet. This may be true for you, even if it would not be true for most people. In this case, I am more like most people, although I am very frequently very unlike most people. That is why epidemiological studies need to be examined very carefully in evaluating personal policies. > All things are on a continuum, whether it is total calories, % of > calories from fat, % of calories from protein (or just amount of > protein, another topic previously discussed), types of fat, water > intake (another discussion), anti-oxidants (another discussion), > whatever. Both ends of each continuum lead to increased disease > states, aging, or death. Somewhere between the ends is an optimum > for each diet component, but will the optimum for cardiac health be > the optimum for cancer prevention, or stroke, or XXX organ function, > or longevity, or enjoyment of life? And is what gives the best > results for a population of a test species also be optimum for a > population of humans? And will the optimum for human populations be > optimum for YOU or ME or some other individual? Yes, these are accurate and reasonable questions. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Sun Mar 22 12:40:25 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id MAA07538; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:40:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id MAA07492; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:40:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17318; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:40:16 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA20733; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:40:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:40:16 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: Essential Fatty Acids (EFAs) In-Reply-To: <3514FB27.9531731C@gte.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Paul Wakfer wrote: > Ben Best wrote: > > > *Trans* fats are more solid, > > This much is true. > > > which is why > > unsaturated vegetable oils are artificially hydrogenated to reduce their > > fluidity in margarine. > > I think this part is misleading. As I understand it, the main reason why > vegetable oils are artificially hydrogenated it to make them more > *saturated* (ie turn the double bonds into single bonds) which reduces > their fluidity as Ben goes on to say. The "trans" result is not > purposefull but is simply a result of the uncontrolled bulk reaction of > hydrogenation. I think you are right about this. > > There is some concern about the effects when > > *trans* fatty acids are incorporated into membranes where *cis* fatty > > acids would normally be. > > There isn't just some *concern*. Trans fats have been quite conclusively > been proven to be more harmful than any kind of cis fats. I have heard this -- which is why I mentioned it -- but I have not seen substantiation. My MODERN NUTRITION text denies that the harmfulness of trans fats has been established. If you know that it has been proven conclusively, can you state explicitly what the demonstated harm is and supply a reference to studies in reputable journal? I would like to learn more about this. So far I have only seen unsubstantiated claims, and when I look for evidence I haven't found any. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Sun Mar 22 13:29:17 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id NAA23382; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:29:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id NAA23372; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:29:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA23750; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:29:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA23447; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:29:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:29:11 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: High-Fat Weight-Loss Diet Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk As if the subject of fats weren't frustratingly complex enough, I noticed the following entry on page 542 of my copy of BIOCHEMISTRY by Robert H. Abeles, et.al. (1992) *********************************************************************** * BEGIN QUOTE *********************************************************************** In the 1970s, a popular weight-restriction diet called the "carbo-calorie diet" became popular in the United States. It was reported to allow the overweight dieter to eat all he or she wants, as long as the amount of total carbohydrate intake was under a specified limit. The dieter was encouraged to eat as much fat as desired, however. Thus, whole milk was preferred to skim milk as a drink, because more sugar per volume is contained in skim milk. In the same way, unlimited amounts of butter, meat, whipped cream, and fried foods were encouraged. Not surprisingly, this diet was welcomed by many, and it did in fact lead to substantial and rapid weight loss, even in the face of a high level of maintained food intake. One reason for the success of this diet was the fact that its enormous intake of fat combined with its low intake of sugar led to the production of ketone bodies, which have the additional effect of suppressing the appetite. Thus, such "ketogenic diets" are somewhat self-regulating. The problem with this diet is that it leads to high levels of saturated fats in the bloodstream. As public consciousness began to focus on the relation between blood cholesterol and atherosclerosis, the popularity of ketogenic diets abruptly waned. *********************************************************************** * END QUOTE *********************************************************************** I find the above description somewhat misleading, since it states that the fat intake was "enormous", but also says that the diet worked because the ketones suppressed appetite -- meaning a reduction of total calories. Also, the proponents of this scheme did not seem the consider the option of eating only monosaturated fats (like olive oil) or even oils high in polyunsaturated fats -- preferably essential fatty acids. I suspect there were more problems with the diet than the authors are reporting. For what it's worth, Greece (and especially Crete) have perhaps the lowest incidence of cardiovascular disease in the world -- certainly lower than the United States or Japan -- and very low cancer rates (except for viral liver cancer). Olive oil is the primary fat in Greece. Only very recently has the Japanese life expectancy exceeded that in Greece. [SCIENCE 264:532-537 (1994)] Of course, this is just epidemiological evidence, meaning that there are many more variables at work than meet the eye. I am wondering how hard it would be to generate ketones with a diet that is both low in carbohydrate *and* fat. But this would mean depending mostly on protein for calories -- which would be hard on the kidneys. The complexities of nutrition are enough to drive a nutritionist to suicide, I sometimes think. Fortunately, I am a committed life-extensionist. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Sun Mar 22 17:10:36 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id RAA02771; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:10:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.mailsrvcs.net (smtp1.gte.net [207.115.153.30]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id RAA02749; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:10:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust4.tnt3.ontario.ca.da.uu.net [208.254.111.4]) by smtp1.mailsrvcs.net with ESMTP id SAA19683; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 18:10:21 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3515A641.14D243A6@gte.net> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:01:05 -0800 From: Paul Wakfer Reply-To: wakfer@gte.net Organization: The Institute for Neural Cryobiology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ben Best CC: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver Subject: Re: Essential Fatty Acids (EFAs) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Ben Best wrote: > > On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Paul Wakfer wrote: > > > Ben Best wrote: > > > There is some concern about the effects when > > > *trans* fatty acids are incorporated into membranes where *cis* fatty > > > acids would normally be. > > > > There isn't just some *concern*. Trans fats have been quite conclusively > > been proven to be more harmful than any kind of cis fats. > > I have heard this -- which is why I mentioned it -- but I have not > seen substantiation. My MODERN NUTRITION text denies that the harmfulness > of trans fats has been established. If you know that it has been proven > conclusively, can you state explicitly what the demonstated harm is and > supply a reference to studies in reputable journal? I would like to > learn more about this. So far I have only seen unsubstantiated claims, > and when I look for evidence I haven't found any. The following is the paper that I was thinking of. There are others. Am J Clin Nutr 1997 Oct;66(4 Suppl):1006S-1010S Health effects of trans fatty acids. Ascherio A, Willett WC Department of Nutrition, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, MA 02115, USA. trans Fatty acids are formed during the process of partial hydrogenation in which liquid vegetable oils are converted to margarine and vegetable shortening. Concern has existed that this process may have adverse consequences because natural essential fatty acids are destroyed and the new artificial isomers are structurally similar to saturated fats, lack the essential metabolic activity of the parent compounds, and inhibit the enzymatic desaturation of linoleic and linolenic acid. In the past 5 y a series of metabolic studies has provided unequivocal evidence that trans fatty acids increase plasma concentrations of low-density-lipoprotein cholesterol and reduce concentrations of high-density-lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol relative to the parent natural fat. In these same studies, trans fatty acids increased the plasma ratio of total to HDL cholesterol nearly twofold compared with saturated fats. On the basis of these metabolic effects and the known relation of blood lipid concentrations to risk of coronary artery disease, we estimate conservatively that 30,000 premature deaths/y in the United States are attributable to consumption of trans fatty acids. Epidemiologic studies, although not conclusive on their own, are consistent with adverse effects of this magnitude or even larger. Because there are no known nutritional benefits of trans fatty acids and clear adverse metabolic consequences exist, prudent public policy would dictate that their consumption be minimized and that information on the trans fatty acid content of foods be available to consumers. -- Paul -- wakfer@gte.net Voice/Fax: 909-481-9620 Page: 800-805-2870 The Institute for Neural Cryobiology - http://www.neurocryo.org Perfected cryopreservation of Central Nervous System tissue for neuroscience research and medical repair of brain diseases >From owner-cran@ListService.net Sun Mar 22 18:32:10 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id SAA26148; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 18:32:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id SAA26132; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 18:32:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA09139; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:32:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA08866; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:32:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:32:04 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Ethanol and other liquids for calories In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Ben Best wrote: > I am wondering how hard it would be to generate ketones with a diet > that is both low in carbohydrate *and* fat. But this would mean depending > mostly on protein for calories -- which would be hard on the kidneys. Anyone who is thinking of a plan to keep carbohydrate *and* fat *and* protein calories very low by the use of ethanol should look at the paper in PHYSIOLOGY AND BEHAVIOR 59(1):179-187 (1996). Even alcoholics rarely get over 50% of calories from ethanol. The average for alcohol users is 10%. While other sources of calories tend to reduce calorie-consumption, this only occurs for alcohol on higher doses. "Light drinkers" eat as much food as they would eat without the ethanol consumption. The study in this paper supported that of previous investigations. This paper also provided a literature review of calories consumed in liquid form. Food consumed in liquid form tends to be less satiating than solid food -- more calories are consumed. But calories in the form of alcohol are 46% less satiating than other macronutrients in a fluid medium. A general review entitled "Alcohol and energy intake" can be found in THE AMERICAN JOURNAL OF CLINICAL NUTRITION 62(suppl):1101S-1106S (1995). Despite the fact that alcohol does not reduce average food intake (evidently being a stimulant to the appetite), alcohol does not in general lead to weight gain. Part of the reason is evidently due to suppression of oxidation of fat. Alcohol seems to interfere with energy-generating systems of mitochondria. "Liver mitochondria from ethanol-fed rats had 55% fewer active ribosomes and 46% less initiation of protein synthesis." The paper does not mention effects on water retention, but I seem to recall that alcohol is diuretic -- water loss could account for some weight loss. There is evidently lots of individual variation to the effects of alcohol as well: "alcohol appears to have no trend of making lean individual obese, but rather causes obese individuals to become more obese." All in all, I don't think alcohol makes a very good calorie source for individuals practicing CRAN. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Mon Mar 23 11:23:15 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id LAA08355; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:23:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id LAA08344; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:23:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06849; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:23:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA18285; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:22:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:22:59 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com Reply-To: Ben Best To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Mercury in Fish Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Evidence has been presented of reduced cardiovascular disease in people consuming fish high in omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids [NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE 336:1046 (1997)]. However, another study found just the opposite -- increased cardiovascular disease with increased fish consumption [CIRCULATION 91:645-655 (1995)]. In the latter case, the fish were from freshwater Finnish lakes where the mercury content is particularly high. A positive correlation was seen with fish intake, hair mercury and urinary mercury. Men who consumed 30 grams of fish per day or more had 56% higher mean mercury hair content and a 2.4-fold risk of coronary mortality compared to men consuming less fish. A weak association was also seen between cigarette smoking and hair mercury, attributed to intake of mercury from cigarette smoke. Mercury can increase production of superoxide anions. One study showed that mercuric ions (1-6 micromole/Litre) caused up to a 5-fold increase in hydrogen peroxide production in mitochondria -- which is the substrate for the hydroxyl-radical producing Fenton reaction. Mercury has a high affinity for sulfhydryl groups, inactivating glutathione (which normally regenerates tocopherol from tocopheroxyl radical). Mercury also forms insoluble mercury selenide, thus removing the selenium which could normally act as a co-factor for scavenging of hydrogen peroxide and lipid peroxides by glutathione peroxidase. According to SCIENCE [278:1904-1905 (1997)] a 60 kg woman consuming 4 ounces of fish per week containing average mercury content of 0.25 parts per million would receive an exposure of 0.1 microgram per kilogram of mercury per day -- equivalent to the 1996 US Environmental Protection Agency limit of the daily dose that can be safely consumed over a lifetime. The concern for women is especially great because during the third trimester of pregnancy, large amounts of omega-6 and omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids are mobilized for development of the brain and vascular system [up to 50% of the total fatty acids in the phospholipids of the cerebral cortex and retina consist of docosanhexaenoic acid (DHA) -- an omega-3 fatty acid]. Some have even suggested omega-3 supplementation during pregnancy. Fish with an average tissue concentration in the range of 0.2 to 0.3 parts per million of mercury include bass, crappie, dolphin, halibut, mackerel, pike, snapper and tuna. Tuna used to be one of my favorite foods, but I rarely eat fish these days because of my concern about mercury. Selenium can protect cells from mercury damage, so I occasionally take selenium supplements. I prefer to get my omega-3 fatty acids from linseed (flaxseed). -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Tue Mar 24 10:03:40 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id KAA05105; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:03:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from vcn.bc.ca (oberon@opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id KAA05092; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:03:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (oberon@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA18354 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:03:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:03:24 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Skrecky To: cran@listservice.net Subject: (fwd) 8 Worst Convenience Foods Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Newsgroups: rec.humor.funny From: chaber@neosoft.com (Cecil Habermacher) The 8 Worst Convenience Foods By PENMART10@aol.com 8. Meeter's Kraut Juice (Stokely USA): Yes, that's sauerkraut juice, which is even worse than it sounds. The taste and smell can be a bit, well, harsh, but KJ is reputed by its fans to have certain medicinal benefits (as a source of vitamin C, cure for intestinal bugs, etc.), which adds up to a classic case of the cure being worse than the disease. 7. Guycan Corned Mutton with Juices Added (Bedessee Imports): The best thing about this Uruguayan canned good is the very pouty-looking sheep on the package label -- he seems to be saying, "Go on, eat me already." The second-best thing is the presence of both "cooked mutton" and "mutton" in the ingredients listing, which would seem to have all the mutton bases covered. 6. Armour Pork Brains in Milk Gravy (Dial Corp.): If you're really looking to clog up those arteries in a hurry, you'll be pleased to learn that a single serving of pork brains has 1,170 percent of our recommended daily cholesterol intake. All the more ingenious, then, that the label on this product helpfully features a recipe for brains and scrambled eggs. 5. Sweet Sue Canned Whole Chicken (Sweet Sue Kitchens, Inc.): From its size (think growth-impaired Cornish hen) to its overall appearance (it's stewed in a quivering mass of aspic goop), this product may change forever your idea of what constitutes a chicken. Gives new meaning to the old line about meat "falling off the bone." 4. Musk Life Savers (Nestle Confectionery): You may think musk is a scent, but over in Australia, they think it's a candy flavor. A candy flavor that tastes disturbingly like raw meat, to be precise. But what did you expect from a country where everyone happily consumes Vegemite? 3. Blind Robins Smoked Ocean Herring (recently discontinued by Bar Food Products): Possibly the world's most bizarre prepackaged tavern snack. Interestingly, the product's titular robin isn't actually blind, he's blindfolded -- the better, presumably, to avoid looking at these heavily salted herring strips, which look like giant slugs. 2. Kylmaenen Reindeer Pate` (Kylmaenen Oy): This Finnish canned good may not be particulary tasty, but at least it answers the age-old question of why Rudolph was so eager for that safe, steady job on Santa's sleigh team -- he didn't want to end up a cracker spread. 1. Tengu Clam Jerky (Tengu Co.): Nothing you've ever consumed can prepare you for the horror that is clam jerky. Still, this product does score a sort of conceptual coup: If you're the sort who's always found raw clams too slimy and gelatinous for your taste, these dried, shriveled mollusks will help you dislike clams on a whole new level. [Note - originally appeared in rec.food.cooking. Reprinted with permission of PENMART10@aol.com. All are reportedly real products - ed.] -- Selected by Jim Griffith. MAIL your joke to funny@clari.net. Sponsored by ClariNet Communications Corp. (http://www.clari.net) If you post instead of mailing, it screws up the reply-address sometimes. Attribute the joke's source if at all possible. A Daemon will auto-reply. This joke's link: http://comedy.clari.net/rhf/jokes/98/Mar/convfood.html >From owner-cran@ListService.net Tue Mar 24 23:20:41 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id XAA14800; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:20:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id XAA14776; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:20:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA07464; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 01:20:40 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA19059; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 01:20:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 01:20:40 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Resveratrol without Ethanol Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Those wanting the phytochemical benefits of red wine without the ethanol can take 200 mg resveratrol capsules sold by Olympia Nutrition (19.95/60 capsules). They also sell grape seed, saw palmetto extract, green tea exstract and many similar capsules or tablets: Olympia Nutrition 1765 Garnet Ave. #66L San Diego, CA 92109 888-366-9909 (toll-free) olympia@smart-drugs.com -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Wed Mar 25 15:50:53 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id PAA03166; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:50:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id PAA03148; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:50:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23913; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:50:24 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA26421; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:50:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:50:23 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Vitamin E in Nuts & Oils Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: CRAN@ListService.net In discussions of fats & oils I often see the value of nuts lauded, without specification of what exactly in nuts is supposed to be of such value. The argument seems to be based on a "cafeteria eating" concept based on the idea that foods we might to eat probably have nutrients that are as yet undiscovered. This kind of thinking can easily lead to overeating and unnecessary calories. On the basis of known nutrients, I can't think of what else might be found particularly in nuts & oils apart from the essential fatty acids (linolenic & lenoleic -- or omega-3 & omega-6 fatty acids, more generally) and Vitamin E. Other vitamins & minerals are easily gotten elsewhere. The value of Vitamin E is higher for people consuming higher levels of polyunsaturated fatty acids (like the essential fatty acids) because Vitamin E and Selenium are the primary nutrient defenses against free-radical oxidation of polyunsaturated fatty acids -- particularly in cell membranes. But all nuts & oils are not created equal with respect to nutrients. I nuts & oils are eaten for nutrient it at least makes sense to find out what is known about the nutrient content. I took data on Vitamin E content from Pennington's FOOD VALUES and THE COMPOSITION OF FOODS (5th Edition) of The Royal Society of Chemistry, pooled the data and placed it in descending order. All values are mg Vitamin E per 100 gm food. FOOD VALUES specifies that the values are for alpha-tocopherol, but THE COMPOSITION OF FOODS just says "Vitamin E". WHEATGERM OIL 136 SUNFLOWER OIL 43 SUNFLOWER SEEDS 37 SAFFLOWER OIL 32 HAZELNUTS 25 ALMONDS 24 HAZELNUTS 23 CANOLA OIL 22 PEANUT BUTTER 18 SOYA OIL 16 PEANUT OIL 15 PEANUTS 9 BRAZIL NUTS 7 PISTACHIO NUTS 5 OLIVE OIL 5 SWEET POTATOES 4 AVACADO 3 PECANS 3 WALNUTS 2 SESAME SEEDS 2 SPINACH 2 TOMATOES 1 CASHEWS 1 A person eating "nuts" for nutrient might think that they are getting lots of Vitamin E by eating pecans, walnuts or cashews, but the data indicates otherwise. Hazelnuts are also known as filberts. I don't know why peanut butter would have a higher value than peanuts or peanut oil. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Wed Mar 25 20:21:19 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id UAA14586; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:21:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.mailsrvcs.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id UAA14576; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:21:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust76.tnt1.ontario.ca.da.uu.net [208.254.108.76]) by smtp2.mailsrvcs.net with ESMTP id VAA06242 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:21:12 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3519C772.6D43B8D1@gte.net> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:11:46 -0800 From: Paul Wakfer Organization: The Institute for Neural Cryobiology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CRAN@ListService.net Subject: Re: Vitamin E in Nuts & Oils References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: CRAN@ListService.net Ben Best wrote: > > In discussions of fats & oils I often see the value of nuts > lauded, without specification of what exactly in nuts is supposed > to be of such value. The argument seems to be based on a > "cafeteria eating" concept based on the idea that foods we might > to eat probably have nutrients that are as yet undiscovered. Ben, you often make statements similar to this which appear arrogant in as much as they ascribe illogic and stupidity to others without first ascertaining what that logic was. I think one should be more cautious in ascribing irrationality to positions of others before one fully knows the reasons for those positions. Please accept this as the constructive criticism that it is intended to be. > This > kind of thinking can easily lead to overeating and unnecessary > calories. No, the *thinking* can't! But, yes, high consumption of nuts for whatever reasons *can* lead to such overeating. > On the basis of known nutrients, I can't think of what else might be > found particularly in nuts & oils apart from the essential fatty acids > (linolenic & lenoleic -- or omega-3 & omega-6 fatty acids, more generally) > and Vitamin E. Ben, again your statement appears conceited. The fact that *you* can't think of it means little in the context of the thousands of other scientists who study such things, and even moreso in the context of the many thousand of compounds which any whole food contains. Here are a few abstracts concerning nuts, which show that there may be more things than you can "think of": Eur J Clin Nutr 1998 Jan;52(1):12-16 A diet rich in walnuts favourably influences plasma fatty acid profile in moderately hyperlipidaemic subjects. Chisholm A, Mann J, Skeaff M, Frampton C, Sutherland W, Duncan A, Tiszavari S Department of Human Nutrition, University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand. OBJECTIVE: To compare two low fat diets one rich in walnuts on parameters of lipid metabolism in a group of hyperlipidaemic subjects. DESIGN: A randomised cross over study. SETTING: Department of Human Nutrition, University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand SUBJECTS: Twenty one men with mean (s.d.) levels of total and LDL cholesterol of 6.58 (0.60) and 4.63 (0.58) respectively. INTERVENTIONS: For two periods of four weeks subjects were asked to consume two low fat diets (fat 30% total energy), one containing, on average, 78 g/d walnuts. Walnuts obtained through Lincoln University and the Walnut Growers Group (South Canterbury). RESULTS: Participants reported a higher total fat intake on the walnut diet (38% compared with 30% on the low fat diet P < 0.01) The most consistent change in fatty acid profile of triacylglycerol, phospholipid and cholesterol ester on the walnut diet was a significant (P < 0.01) increase in linoleic acid. Triacylglycerol linolenate also increased significantly (P < 0.01). Total and LDL cholesterol were lower on both experimental diets than at baseline, 0.25 mmol/l and 0.36 mmol/l respectively on the walnut diet and 0.13 mmol/l and 0.20 mmol/l respectively on the low fat diet. High density lipoprotein cholesterol was higher on both the walnut and low fat diets when compared to baseline (0.15 mmol/l and 0.12 mmol/l, respectively). When comparing the walnut and low fat diets only apo B was significantly lower (P < 0.05) on the walnut diet. CONCLUSIONS: Despite an unintended increase in the total fat intake on the walnut diet, fatty acid profile of the major lipid fractions showed changes which might be expected to reduce risk of cardiovascular disease. The reduction of apolipoprotein B suggests a reduction in lipoprotein mediated risk, the relatively low myristic acid content of both diets perhaps explaining the absence of more extensive differences in lipoprotein levels on the two diets. Mutat Res 1996 May 17;360(1):15-21 Antimutagenicity of ellagic acid against aflatoxin B1 in the Salmonella microsuspension assay. Loarca-Pina G, Kuzmicky PA, Gonzalez de Mejia E, Kado NY, Hsieh DP Departamento de Investigacion y Posgrado, Facultad de Quimica, Universidad Autonoma de Queretaro, Mexico. Ellagic acid (EA) is a phenolic compound with antimutagenic and anticarcinogenic properties. It occurs naturally in some foods such as strawberries, raspberries, grapes, black currants and walnuts. In the present study, we used the Salmonella microsuspension assay to examine the antimutagenicity of EA against the potent mutagen aflatoxin B1 (AFB1) using tester strains TA98 and TA100. Further, we used a two-stage incubation procedure that incorporates washing the bacterial cells free of the incubation mixture after the first incubation to investigate EA and AFB1 interaction. Three different concentrations of AFB1 (2.5, 5 and 10 ng/tube) were tested against five different concentrations of EA for TA98 and TA100. EA significantly inhibited mutagenicity of all doses of AFB1 in both tester strains with the addition of S9. EA alone was not mutagenic at the concentrations tested. The greatest inhibitory effect of EA on AFB1 mutagenicity occurred when EA and AFB1 were incubated together. Lower inhibition was apparent when the cells were first incubated with EA followed by a second incubation with AFB1, and also when the cells were first incubated with AFB1 followed by a second incubation with EA alone. The results of the sequential incubation studies support the hypothesis that one mechanism of inhibition could involve the formation of a chemical complex between EA and AFB1. J Am Coll Nutr 1992 Apr;11(2):126-130 Effect of a diet high in monounsaturated fat from almonds on plasma cholesterol and lipoproteins. Spiller GA, Jenkins DJ, Cragen LN, Gates JE, Bosello O, Berra K, Rudd C, Stevenson M, Superko R Health Research and Studies Center, Inc., Los Altos, California 94023-0338. The effect of almonds as part of a low saturated fat, low cholesterol, high-fiber diet was studied in 26 adults (13 men, 13 women). The baseline diet was modified in a similar way for all subjects by limiting meat, fatty fish, high-fat milk products, eggs, and saturated fat. Grains, beans, vegetables, fruit, and low-fat milk products were the foundation of the diet. During the almond diet period, raw almonds (100 mg/day) supplied 34 g/day of monounsaturated fatty acid (MUFA), 12 g/day of polyunsaturated fatty acid, and 6 g/day of saturated fatty acid. Almond oil was the only oil allowed for food preparation. There was a rapid and sustained reduction in low-density lipoprotein cholesterol without changes in high-density lipoprotein cholesterol. This was reflected in a total plasma cholesterol decrease from (means +/- SEM) 235 +/- 5.0 at baseline to 215 +/- 5.0 at 3 weeks, and to 214 +/- 5.0 mg/dl at 9 weeks (p less than 0.001). When the consumption of nuts high in MUFA increases the fat content of the diet, reduction rather than elevation of plasma cholesterol has to be expected, possibly due to the MUFA content of these nuts. Nuts are also high in many healthy, particularly anti-carcinogenic, phytochemicals. > Other vitamins & minerals are easily gotten elsewhere. All sources of each vitamin and mineral are important and somewhat unique. I don't believe that you should disparage any whole food source just because it is not the highest possible source of the pharmaceutically pure vitamin. However, for selenium, your statement is not even true. Brazil nuts are the most nutritious source of selenium. In fact, they are so potent that a daily *megadose* can be obtained from 1 oz. Nutr Cancer 1994;21(3):203-212 Bioactivity of selenium from Brazil nut for cancer prevention and selenoenzyme maintenance. Ip C, Lisk DJ Department of Surgical Oncology, Roswell Park Cancer Institute, Buffalo, NY 14263. Brazil nut (Bertholletia excelsa) is one of very few consumable products with exceptionally high levels of selenium. The mean selenium concentrations of two shipments of Brazil nut used in the present study were determined to be 16 and 30 micrograms/g. In contrast, most common foods contain much less selenium, from 0.01 to 1 micrograms/g. Previous research on selenium cancer chemoprevention invariably used a pure compound, whereas little information is available on the efficacy of selenium delivered naturally in a food form. This paper reports the results of two mammary cancer prevention experiments in the rat dimethylbenz[a]anthracene model by continuous feeding of selenium-rich Brazil nut (processed to a smooth-textured nut material for mixing in the diet). A dose-dependent inhibitory response was observed at dietary selenium concentrations of 1-3 micrograms/g. Interestingly, Brazil nut was found to be just as powerful as sodium selenite, if not more so, at similar levels of dietary selenium intake. Mammary cancer protection gland, and plasma. The magnitude of tissue selenium accumulation was proportional to the amount of Brazil nut added to the diet. The nutritional biopotency of selenium in Brazil nut was also evaluated by the repletion of two selenoenzymes, glutathione peroxidase and type I 5'-deiodinase, in selenium-deficient rats. Supplementation with Brazil nut as the sole source of selenium produced an efficient gradient of enzyme restoration at 0.05-0.2 microgram/g of dietary selenium. A parallel comparison with sodium selenite indicated that the selenium in Brazil nut and selenite selenium were equally bioactive. Although at this point it can only be inferred that the above biologic effects are likely to be attributable to the high selenium content of Brazil nut, there is persuasive evidence to suggest that the models under investigation are responding to the selenium rather than to the other components of Brazil nut. > The > value of Vitamin E is higher for people consuming higher levels of > polyunsaturated fatty acids (like the essential fatty acids) because > Vitamin E and Selenium are the primary nutrient defenses against > free-radical oxidation of polyunsaturated fatty acids > -- particularly in cell membranes. Actually, from what I understand of the lastest research, it may now be inaccurate to ascribe this last to "Vitamin E", since gamma-tocopherol may be more important in cell membranes than alpha-tocopherol. (See below for the definition of vitamin E.) > But all nuts & oils are not created equal with respect to nutrients. I > nuts & oils are eaten for nutrient it at least makes sense to find out > what is known about the nutrient content. I took data on Vitamin E content > from Pennington's FOOD VALUES and THE COMPOSITION OF FOODS (5th Edition) > of The Royal Society of Chemistry, pooled the data and placed it in > descending order. All values are mg Vitamin E per 100 gm food. FOOD VALUES > specifies that the values are for alpha-tocopherol, but THE COMPOSITION OF > FOODS just says "Vitamin E". This is probably because vitamin E potency is defined by a specific kind of biological activity of alpha-tocopherol. The vitamin E potencies of all other tocopherols (and tocotrienols too) are defined in terms of that specific biological activity and come our far less than that of alpha-tocopherol. Beta-tocopherol has 25-50% bioactivity, gamma has 10-35%, and alpha tocotrienol has ~30%. (These numbers are taken from _Present Knowledge in Nutrition_ Seventh Edition 1996). Another important aspect of vitamin E is that different chemical forms have quite different beneficial effects. Eg the succinate form is less susceptible to overdosing and is particularly beneficial against cancer. > WHEATGERM OIL 136 > SUNFLOWER OIL 43 > SUNFLOWER SEEDS 37 > SAFFLOWER OIL 32 > HAZELNUTS 25 > ALMONDS 24 > HAZELNUTS 23 > CANOLA OIL 22 > PEANUT BUTTER 18 > SOYA OIL 16 > PEANUT OIL 15 > PEANUTS 9 > BRAZIL NUTS 7 > PISTACHIO NUTS 5 > OLIVE OIL 5 > SWEET POTATOES 4 > AVACADO 3 > PECANS 3 > WALNUTS 2 > SESAME SEEDS 2 > SPINACH 2 > TOMATOES 1 > CASHEWS 1 > A person eating "nuts" for nutrient might think that they are getting > lots of Vitamin E by eating pecans, walnuts or cashews, but the data > indicates otherwise. This is true for those particular nuts. They are not getting "lots" from small portions of those nuts even if they believe that "lots" is related to the RDA (8-10 mg per day). > I don't know > why peanut butter would have a higher value than peanuts or peanut oil. I was curious about this also. A vitamin E table in Krause's _Food, Nutrition, and Diet Therapy_ gives essentially the same results for peanuts as above. However, that table also says that the peanut butter assessed was "Skippy". I believe that the answer, therefore, is that Skippy, which I know is hydrogenated and sweetened, is either fortified with extra vitamin E or contains some added, hydrogenated vegetable oil which contains more vitamin E per gram than peanuts do. I shall check on my next trip to the supermarket. -- Paul -- wakfer@gte.net Voice/Fax: 909-481-9620 Page: 800-805-2870 The Institute for Neural Cryobiology - http://www.neurocryo.org Perfected cryopreservation of Central Nervous System tissue for neuroscience research and medical repair of brain diseases >From owner-cran@ListService.net Wed Mar 25 22:48:04 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id WAA29430; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:48:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from arl-img-2.compuserve.com (arl-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.217.132]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id WAA29417; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by arl-img-2.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.10) id AAA01250 for cran@ListService.net; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 00:47:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 00:46:57 -0500 From: "Michael R. Edelstein" Subject: Monounsaturated Fat Cc: CRAN List Message-ID: <199803260047_MC2-3801-4922@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: CRAN@ListService.net Doug Skrecky's wrote: > . . . I try to limit (or nearly eliminate) saturated fat from my diet and increase = > monounsaturated . . . Similarly, Ben Best wrote: > . . . consider the option of eating only monosaturated fats (like olive= oil) . . . It's my understanding that olive oil, a "monounsaturated" fat, includes = saturated fat as 11% of its composition. = Can anyone comment on the accuracy of this? Michael Michael R. Edelstein, Ph.D. = Clinical Psychologist San Francisco 415-673-2848 (24 hours) Author of THREE MINUTE THERAPY: = CHANGE YOUR THINKING, CHANGE YOUR LIFE* (with David Ramsay Steele, Ph.D.) FEATURES HELP FOR ANXIETY, DEPRESSION, RELATIONSHIPS, PANIC ATTACKS AND ADDICTION *A Quality Paperback Book Club/Book-of-the-Month Club Selection TO ORDER: www.amazon.com Or toll free: 1-800-986-4135 DrEdelstein@ThreeMinuteTherapy.com www.ThreeMinuteTherapy.com >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 26 01:47:46 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id BAA09929; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 01:47:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id BAA09917; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 01:47:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (benbest@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15695; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 03:47:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (from benbest@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA21036; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 03:47:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 03:47:48 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best X-Sender: benbest@shell1.interlog.com To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver cc: Ben Best Subject: Life Extension Reseacher's Work Halted Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: CRAN@ListService.net I assume that most people on this list are practicing CRAN or, at least, interested in CRAN for reasons of life-extension. For that reason I am not going to feel too badly about posting the following -- which is not strictly on the subject of CRAN. Dr. Marguarite Kay is a top-flight molecular biologist at the University of Arizona. She gave a presentation at the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine (A4M) Conference last December on the aging of "Band 3" protein (the protein that allows cell membranes to "breath" by ion transport) and the reduction of Band-3 aging by Vitamin E. With aging, the "Band 3" protein undergoes changes due to oxidation (and possibly glycation) to become what is known as "Scenesent Cell Antigen" (SCA). SCA is what marks aging cells for removal by the macrophages. Dr. Kay stated in her talk that "The results of the studies on aging *in vivo* indicate that IgG binding and anion transport are the two most sensitive screening assays for determining cellular age." If there is such a thing as a "biomarker" of aging, these might be good candidates -- perhaps better than insulin resistance, which is being used to evaluate the effects of CRAN in the monkey experiments. A good summary of Dr. Kay's work on "Band 3" aging can be found in ANNALS OF NEW YORK ACADMEMY OF SCIENCES 719:419-447 (1994). She wrote a review of aging of the immune system in MECHANISMS OF AGING AND DEVELOPMENT 9:39-59 (1978). I spoke to her after her talk. She is an ardent life-extensionist, but her ability to do research is under attack by powers-that-be at the University of Arizona. I am not in a position to evaluate the politics involved or the accusations against her. However, I do greatly respect her work. For that reason, I am posting the following description of her plight. I invite others to pass this message along to other life extensionists or life-extension related newsgroups and/or lists. ************************************************************************ ** BEGIN "WITCH HUNT" INFORMATION ************************************************************************ WITCH HUNT at the University of Arizona in the tradition of the Salem Witch Trials and the Inquisition. (reference: the Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagon) We need as many people there as possible in the hope that the presence of people will create pressure for the hand-picked panel to at least appear fair. GRAND INQUISITOR: University of Arizona Administration WITCH until proven innocent at the pre-judged trial: Marguerite M.B. Kay, M.D. Regents Professor of Microbiology and Immunology in the College of Medicine. Her duties include, but are not limited to research, teaching, and service. WHEN: Monday, March 30 starting at 1:00 PM until 5:00 PM. Tuesday through Friday, 8:30 AM to 12:00 noon, then 1:00 until 5:00PM. Fifteen minute breaks at 10:30 AM and 3:00 PM. Saturday, 4/4/98: 8:30-10:30, and 10:45-12:00 noon. NOTE: This may be delayed because Dr. Kay's lawyer is seeking judicial review of the University of Arizona's decision to continue to deny her due process. WHERE: At the University Marriot on campus. if there are changes, a recorded message will be left at (520) 297-9234. HISTORY: In May, 1996, Dr Kay published a high profile paper in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences which showed that Vitamin E delays aging of the immune system and brain. The effect was dramatic. The study was covered by CNN, all major TV and radio stations, news papers and periodicals nationally and internationally. Within 2 weeks, Dr. Michael Cusanovich, the Vice President for Research, ordered Dr. Kay out of her laboratory space on the main campus of the university. Harassment accelerated. Dr. Kay was required to fill out endless forms, repeatedly move her lab to multiple new locations, etc. The University of Arizona has violated Dr. Kay's due process and US and AZ Constitutional rights, and is refusing to allow her to be represented by a lawyer in direct conflict with all applicable policies and constitutional law. They will make Dr. Kay's lawyer sit there and whisper to her, but he must leave the room if he speaks. Dr. Kay's remaining lab in the Medical School was closed to research April, 1997, on Dr. Cusanovich's orders, and Dr. Kay has been relentlessly harassed by committees directly under his control. Witch trial will be in front of hand-picked Committee on Academic Freedom and Tenure, the composition of which violates all applicable rules. Half of this committee, including its Chairman, Dr. T.Cetas, will serve as prosecuters and half will serve as judges. Dr. Kay has been involved in building a World Class Research Group in Immunobiology. She is internationally known in the areas of cellular and molecular aging, immunology, and Alzheimer's disease. The purpose of her research is to find treatments that will delay or prevent diseases associated with aging. The goal of her research is to prolong productive lifespan. She has had a national and international reputation as a physician/scientist since her twenties. Dr. Kay has been working on developing cures for age associated diseases and Alzheimer's disease by manipulating the immune system and using antioxidants and alternative medical treatment. Dr. Kay is a Diplomat of the newly formed American Board of Anti-Aging Medicine, and spoke on her vitamin E research at the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine meetings in Las Vegas this past December. Questions? Call Marguerite Kay at 520-297-9234. Please send contributions to Dr. Kay's legal defense fund to: Dr. M. Kay's Legal Defense Fund c/o Torralba & Assoc Trust Acct, 55 W. Franklin Street, Tucson, AZ 85701. Questions? Call Marguerite Kay at 520-297-9234. "my candle burns a both ends. it may not last the night, but oh, my friends, and ah, my foes, it sheds a wondrous light. . ." ------Lowell ************************************************************************ ** END "WITCH HUNT" INFORMATION ************************************************************************ -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 26 01:49:55 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id BAA10382; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 01:49:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id BAA10377; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 01:49:54 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803260849.BAA10377@listservice.net> Received: (qmail 28677 invoked from network); 26 Mar 1998 08:49:57 -0000 Received: from userc914.uk.uudial.com (HELO yz34.dial.pipex.com) (194.69.109.118) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 1998 08:49:57 -0000 From: "Phil Harris" To: Subject: Re: Vitamin E in Nuts & Oils Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:48:06 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: CRAN@ListService.net I do not take nuts except occasionally when they get included in small quantities, which is neither here nor there. However main quoted reason for nuts is for protein boost for vegetarians who consume no animal products; ( we call them vegans here). Have heard also that Brazils are significant source of selenium. Assume this is because the trees are usually found on selenium rich soils. Mineral content will not be insignificant for tree seeds? In the table, like is not compared with like. Storage items like nuts and seeds are dry (around 10 -12 %?) compared with tomato and spinach at ~90% water and sweet potato and avocado also wet weight. If you measured Vitanim E per cal I guess nuts and oils would look different. However, other measures, Vit E per g protein might be relevant, as might the ratio of oil to protein. Am trying to get a handle on the empty calory concept. Need the Walford computer. (NB also that some oils are highly saturated, peanut and avocado). There is an old French population who used to (still to some extent still do?) get a large part of their calories from chestnuts. This does not look too bad from nonCR or mild CR health point of view, I gather. regards Phil Harris ---------- > From: Ben Best > Subject: Vitamin E in Nuts & Oils > Date: 25 March 1998 22:50 > > > In discussions of fats & oils I often see the value of nuts > lauded, without specification of what exactly in nuts is supposed > to be of such value. The argument seems to be based on a > "cafeteria eating" concept based on the idea that foods we might > to eat probably have nutrients that are as yet undiscovered. This > kind of thinking can easily lead to overeating and unnecessary > calories. . > SNIP Pennington's FOOD VALUES and THE COMPOSITION OF FOODS (5th Edition) > of The Royal Society of Chemistry, pooled the data and placed it in > descending order. All values are mg Vitamin E per 100 gm food. FOOD VALUES > specifies that the values are for alpha-tocopherol, but THE COMPOSITION OF > FOODS just says "Vitamin E". > > WHEATGERM OIL 136 > SUNFLOWER OIL 43 > SUNFLOWER SEEDS 37 > SAFFLOWER OIL 32 > HAZELNUTS 25 > ALMONDS 24 > HAZELNUTS 23 > CANOLA OIL 22 > PEANUT BUTTER 18 > SOYA OIL 16 > PEANUT OIL 15 > PEANUTS 9 > BRAZIL NUTS 7 > PISTACHIO NUTS 5 > OLIVE OIL 5 > SWEET POTATOES 4 > AVACADO 3 > PECANS 3 > WALNUTS 2 > SESAME SEEDS 2 > SPINACH 2 > TOMATOES 1 > CASHEWS 1 > > > A person eating "nuts" for nutrient might think that they are getting > lots of Vitamin E by eating pecans, walnuts or cashews, but the data > indicates otherwise. Hazelnuts are also known as filberts. I don't know > why peanut butter would have a higher value than peanuts or peanut oil. > > -------------------------------------------- > Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) > http://www.benbest.com/ >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 26 02:20:07 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id CAA16352; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 02:20:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id CAA16342; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 02:20:05 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803260920.CAA16342@listservice.net> Received: (qmail 5325 invoked from network); 26 Mar 1998 09:20:10 -0000 Received: from usera362.uk.uudial.com (HELO yz34.dial.pipex.com) (193.149.67.108) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 1998 09:20:10 -0000 From: "Phil Harris" To: Subject: Re: Monounsaturated Fat Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:18:22 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: CRAN@ListService.net >It's my understanding that olive oil, a "monounsaturated" fat, includes saturated fat as 11% of its composition. >Can anyone comment on the accuracy of this? >Michael >Michael R. Edelstein, Ph.D. Sounds about right. According to Ornish 'Reversing Heart Disease' 1990 one tablespoon (~14g) olive oil 1.9g saturated 9.8g monosat 1.2g polyunsat corn oil is 1.7g saturated per tblspn and even canola/puritan is 0.8g sat. However butterfat is 9g saturated. (Ornish BTW has a little table of what he worries about in fish oil including chlorinated hydrocarbons and heavy metal residues in coastal water fish.) best wishes Phil Harris >From owner-cran@ListService.net Thu Mar 26 03:09:54 1998 Received: (root@localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id DAA26507; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 03:09:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.mailsrvcs.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by listservice.net (8.8.5) id DAA26487; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 03:09:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust176.tnt1.ontario.ca.da.uu.net [208.254.108.176]) by smtp2.mailsrvcs.net with ESMTP id EAA01781 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 04:09:47 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <351A271A.2C496029@gte.net> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 01:59:54 -0800 From: Paul Wakfer Organization: The Institute for Neural Cryobiology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CRAN@ListService.net Subject: Re: Monounsaturated Fat References: <199803260047_MC2-3801-4922@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cran@ListService.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: CRAN@ListService.net Michael R. Edelstein wrote: > > Doug Skrecky's wrote: > > > . . . I try to limit (or nearly eliminate) saturated fat from my diet > and increase > > monounsaturated . . . > > Similarly, Ben Best wrote: > > > . . . consider the option of eating only monosaturated fats (like olive > oil) . . . > > It's my understanding that olive oil, a "monounsaturated" fat, includes > saturated fat as 11% of its composition. > > Can anyone comment on the accuracy of this? My tables say 13.5% saturated, 73.7% mono, 8.4% poly What the other 4.6% is, I don't know? -- Paul -- wakfer@gte.net Voice/Fax: 909-481-9620 Page: 800-805-2870 The Institute for Neural Cryobiology - http://www.neurocryo.org Perfected cryopreservation of Central Nervous System tissue for neuroscience research and medical repair of brain diseases From: Ben Best To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver Cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: Tables for relevant fats/oils (revised) From: Paul Wakfer >Ben Best wrote: > >>canola oil is what used to be called "rapeseed oil", and I believe >>the name change had something to do with not wanting to promote violence >>against women (this is hearsay). > >I don't know about the last part, but canola is a variety of rapeseed >plant bred to have low erucic acid content. The name was made up from >"Canadian oil". So it is technically incorrect to say canola used to be >called rapeseed oil. True rapeseed oil (I don't know if you can get it >any longer) has somewhat different properties (I think that it doesn't >have as high a percentage of monounsaturates either). Comparing the old and the new "rapeseeds" we would get: SAT 18:1 18:2 18:3 Total rapeseed (new) 7 53 22 10 92 % rapeseed (old) 4 11 13 9 37 % Erucic acid is C22:1,n-9 cis This change in oil composition is VERY dramatic -- it hardly seems reasonable to use the same name. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 22:46:26 -0800 From: Paul Wakfer Reply-To: CRAN@listservice.net To: CRAN@listservice.net Subject: Re: High-Fat Weight-Loss Diet Doug Younkin wrote: > The 'low carb' diet is still promoted by many, and the primary reason > for it's success is the production of ketones. But if the thread on the CR Society list is right, then any high fat diet is going to be life shortening because of excess generation of free radicals. > (If I > remember, the limit for daily carb intake was around 900 > calories, though some just eliminated carbs altogether.) However, > ketones are toxic. Actually, I don't think it's correct to say they are "toxic". There major problem is they are acidic and there metabolism and elimination rate is highly limited. Therefore, they can build up in the blood to a dangerous systemic acidosis condition. *That* is the major thing which make ketosis dangerous from my reading (Guyton, _Textbook of Medical Physiology_). > I also seem to remember an article on > the subject at Vitamin Research Products by Stephen Fowkes where he > speculates that CRAN works by an organism being on the edge of > ketosis through limited carbohydrate intake from limited calorie > intake. Although many people on CRAN may be on the edge of ketosis, I don't think this is the answer for why CRAN works, since a large variety of CRAN diets with very difference ratios of carbos, fat and protein have been shown to extend maximum lifespan. Total calories (and adequate nutrition) seems to be the only thing which matters. -- Paul -- wakfer@gte.net Voice/Fax: 909-481-9620 Page: 800-805-2870 The Prometheus Project -- http://prometheus.morelife.org Perfected Suspended Animation for Patient Stabilization until Cures for Their Terminal Diseases are Available Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 10:40:27 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver Cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: dietary fat & body fat On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Doug Skrecky wrote: > "Is Dietary Fat a Major Determinant of Body Fat?" > American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 67(Sup): 556S-562S 1998 > > Abstract: > [snip] > Moreover, within the United States, a substantial decline in the > percentage of energy from fat consumed during the past two decades has > corresponded with a massive increase in obesity. Diets high in fat do not > appear to be the primary cause of the high prevalence of excess body fat > in our society, and reductions in fat will not be a solution. From 1978 to 1990 fat in the American diet declined from 36% to 34% of calories [AMERICAN JOURNAL OF CLINICAL NUTRITION 66(Suppl):965S-972S (1997)]. In approximately the same period there was a 33% increase in the number of adult Americans who are overweight [defined by Body Mass Index (BMI)] [JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION 272:205-211 (1994)]. This might be taken as proof that reduction of dietary fat increases body fat. Such an interpretation is excessively simplistic, however, and ignores many important variables. A study in the AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PUBLIC HEALTH [87:747-754 (1997)] studied variables associated with BMI change for nearly 80,000 adults. Factors associated with increased BMI: meat consumption (over 3 servings per week) smoking cessation Factors associated with decreased BMI: vegetable consumption (over 19 servings per week) Vitamin E supplementation ( <= 100 IU per day) smoking vigorous activity (jogging/running) The largest of all these effects was smoking cessation, resulting in a BMI increase of 1.0 kg/m*2. There has been an ongoing decline in the rate of smoking from the mid 1960s (35% females, 50% males) to 1978 (27% females, 32% males) and continuing into the present. However, despite the associated increase in BMI, between 1973 and 1993 the combined death rate of all cardiovascular diseases declined by 45% [AMERICAN JOURNAL OF CLINICAL NUTRITION 66(Suppl):965S-972S (1997)]. The decline in smoking and the decline in fat consumption have probably both contributed to this benefit. Between 1960 and 1990 mean American cholesterol fell from 220 to 205 mg/dL for adults, mostly LDL cholesterol. Every 1% reduction in plasma cholesterol is associated with a 2% reduction in coronary heart disease mortality [JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION 251:351-374 (1984)]. The more reasonable conclusion, therefore is that reduction in smoking has been associated with an increased BMI, but both smoking reduction and fat reduction have reduced cardiovascular mortality. Reduced meat consumption and increased vegetable consumption as independent predictors of reduced BMI would seem to indicate that reduction of fat in the diet aids reduction of BMI. Although other factors in vegetables (ie, increased fiber) could contribute, it seems less likely that other components in meat could be complicating the effect. Nonetheless, there is probably a section of society for whom reduction of dietary fat means fewer potato chips and more cookies. Whether this will reduce body fat is a subject for another posting. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 10:52:41 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Best To: Caloric Restriction with Adequate Nutrition Listserver Cc: Ben Best Subject: Re: Hazard of low cholesterol On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Doug Younkin wrote: > While we are on the topic of fat intake and blood lipids, there > does appear to be a correlation between low blood cholestrol and > dangerous mood states, which may be life shortening. Again, these > are population trends and may not apply to all individuals. But it > is something to be aware of and to look for if the circumstances > match your own. > > Doug Younkin > ==================================== > 11:25 AM ET 03/14/98 > > Study links low cholesterol to violent death > > > (Release at 5 p.m. EST, Saturday) > PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) - Low cholesterol could be > responsible for higher rates of violent death among some people, > particularly men, a study released on Saturday suggests. > Reseachers found that men with blood cholesterol levels of > less than 160 milligrams per deciliter met with homicide, > suicide or fatal accidents 50 to 80 percent more often than > those with the highest levels of cholesterol. > Women with low cholesterol were nearly 30 percent more prone to > violent death, the study showed. > The findings, published in the March 15 issue of the > American College of Physicians' Annals of Internal Medicine, > were based on computer-database surveys of more than 30 peer- > reviewed medical reports and analyses from the United States and > Europe. > Some data examined for the study even showed a connection > between low baseline cholesterol levels and antagonistic > behavior among monkeys. > Dr. Beatrice Golomb, staff physician at San Diego Veterans > Affairs Medical Center in California, said the findings suggest > a causal link between low cholesterol and violent death, even > though the data was not backed up by control group studies. > She said it is possible that low cholesterol is accompanied > by a reduction in the brain chemical, serotonin, which is > believed to control violent behavior. > ``We know that low-serotonin people are more likely to > commit suicide, especially by violent means, and homicide,'' > explained Golomb, who also works as a research professor of > psychiatry at the University of Southern California. > Her research has obvious implications for the ongoing debate > about cholesterol and health. > A fat-like bodily substance found in the bloodstream, > cholesterol has long been identified as a contributor to heart > disease. Conventional wisdom has been to lower cholesterol > levels through drugs, exercise and diets low in saturated fat. > But heart-disease studies which show only beneficial effects of > lowered cholesterol concentrate on a narrow segment of the population > made up of people with highly compliant or ''pro-social'' > personalities, Golomb said. These are subjects who can be counted on > to comply with the demands of research. > ``(The studies) exclude 85 percent of the population that is > slightly less pro-social. And it's probably going to be that 85 > percent that's at higher risk for adverse outcomes,'' she said. > ^REUTERS@ Doug, The study indicates that this was not controlled for many variables. This is frequently a problem with epidemiological studies -- especially when the most relevant factors to control-for are not known. Considering that cardiovascular mortality is the case of about half of all deaths and that violence is a cause of death in a more miniscule % of cases, it seems like a red-herring to worry about death by violence -- unless you are convinced that CRAN elimiates all risk of increased cardiovascular mortality. It seems to me that there could easily be a small subpopulation of particular genetic/dietary/lifestyle characteristics that are associated with the lower HDL cholesterol. Normally a low fat, high carbohydrate diet would be expected to INCREASE brain serotonin. But this might not be the case if the diet was especially low in protein. Therefore, the association between low HDL and violence might be another indication of the "twinkie" effect -- a diet of low fat and low protein but high in cookies & twinkies. -------------------------------------------- Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) http://www.benbest.com/ Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 18:40:59 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Skrecky Reply-To: CRAN@ListService.net To: cran@ListService.net Cc: oberon@vcn.bc.ca Subject: Low Fat Diet Slashes Weight by 4.2 lbs. > On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Ben Best wrote: > > > In another study, 303 women of normal body > > weight were randomly assigned to two groups, a control group which > > consumed about 39% fat and an intervention group which was put on a diet > > that reduced fat from 39% to 21.6% (target was 20%). After one year, the > > women in the low-fat group had lost an average of 3 kg (13 pounds) and > > had reduced calorie intake by 25%. The conclusion of the study was that ad > > libitum consumption of high-fat foods leads to chronic excess calorie > > consumption. [AMERICAN JOURNAL OF CLINICAL NUTRITION 54:821- 828 (1991)]. > > > I don't mean to rub it in, but I have been looking into this subject > more carefully and all of the studies I have found reinforce the idea that > fat has a low capacity for satiation. [snip] > Moral of the story: to reduce your calorie intake with a minimum of > strain & discomfort -- CUT THE FAT!! > > -------------------------------------------- > Ben Best (benbest@benbest.com) > http://www.benbest.com/ > The following data is derived from table 2 from the above report, which Ben quoted from. Weight-loss after 2 years on a low fat diet was a modest 4.2 lbs. 6-MONTHS 1-YEAR 2-YEAR Low Fat Diet weight change kg (lb) -3.2 (-7.1) -3.0 (-6.6) -1.9 (-4.2) %fat in diet 20.9 21.6 22.8 Normal Diet weight change kg (lb) -0.4 (-0.9) -0.4 (-0.9) -0.1 (-0.2) %fat in diet 37.9 37.2 36.5 Difference Low-Normal weight change kg (lb) -2.8 (-6.2) -2.6 (-5.7) -1.8 (-4.0) %fat in diet -17.0 -15.6 -13.7